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Thread: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

  1. #121
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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    These are the retorts of a beaten foe. I'd just move on to your next victim, prof.
    Victim of boredom maybe?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    These are the retorts of a beaten foe. I'd just move on to your next victim, prof.
    Yes, because I won't play by his ridiculous rules, I lose. Right.

  3. #123
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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Yes, because I won't play by his ridiculous rules, I lose. Right.
    Look, his posts are a bit arduous, especially at first. But if you read them with the intended "cadence", they actually flow better than most.

    He's set forth his points, and you're not playing along, which is your right. But it makes you look like you're changing the subject. I see liberals do it all the time. They've been doing at alarming levels since about...oh....January.

  4. #124
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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    Look, his posts are a bit arduous, especially at first. But if you read them with the intended "cadence", they actually flow better than most.
    Yeah, they are like bullet points. But too many.

    He's set forth his points, and you're not playing along, which is your right. But it makes you look like you're changing the subject. I see liberals do it all the time.
    See, when someone says "liberals do this" that's when I'm not interested.

  5. #125
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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post

    See, when someone says "liberals do this" that's when I'm not interested.
    Well, they do. Don't know what to tell ya.

    A few examples, perhaps?

    How you can be for abortion rights, but anti-death-penalty takes a special talent in avoiding basic common sense. How you can look straight into the camera and say a public "option" does not destroy private insurance take a special talent. How you can be entirely responsible for promoting and pressuring banks to offer subprime mortgages, then blame the other party; how you can claim to be creating and "saving" jobs when unemployment is skyrocketing; how you can run on a platform of pulling trips out of Iraq and Afghanistan, then retain Bush's staff and do neither......and on and on and on.

    Obama and his ilk suffer from an incurable character flaw. And they don't give a rip.

  6. #126
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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    i know, why would we ever want to insure people, crack down on insurance companies and curtail the growth of medical spending?

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  7. #127
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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    Well, they do. Don't know what to tell ya.
    Some do, some don't. Some conservatives do too. So all it does is inflame things for no good reason.

  8. #128
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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    catawba croons:

    all we need is fifty one
    why sweat nelson and lieberman
    don't worry
    be happy

    LOL!
    "For some reason the media and even our politicians keep pounding the vital importance of the Senate obtaining 60 votes in the Senate to pass the health care reform legislation. There's the non-stop 'what will (Traitor) Joe Lieberman do'...or 'will they get (R) Olympia Snowe'...or 'will Harry Reid get the 60 votes he needs...'? 60...60...60 !!! That's all we hear. I'm not sure if the media is trying to add drama to the health care issue in an attempt to stimulate audience ratings or if it's an orchestrated tactic in hopes of keeping Americans ill-informed through the direction of our great politicians, but the FACT is, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid DOES NOT need 60 votes to pass the health care bill but in fact ONLY 51- a simple majority, which makes a huge difference-through a procedure commonly used and known as RECONCILIATION.

    Reconciliation is " a legislative process of the United States Senate intended to allow a contentious budget bill to be considered without being subject to filibuster (only needing 51 votes to pass). Because reconciliation limits debate and amendment, the process empowers the majority party ". The reconciliation procedure is limited to being used for budget related legislation that costs or raises substantial amounts of money. In the case of the Senate health care bill, that would include the expansion of Medicare or Medicaid, revenue-raising tax provisions, and even the creation of a public health insurance option, depending on how it's written. So the reconciliation procedure CAN be used to pass the health care bill with only 51 VOTES !

    The downside of the bill being passed through this procedure is that, due to a ruling known as the Byrd Rule, non-budget legislation designed to regulate the insurance industry could not be included in the bill and would have to be voted on in a separate bill which would need 60 votes to overcome a filibuster. But there is a strategy that can be used to overcome even this obstacle as described by Ryan Grimm of HuffPo:

    But there's another alternative, according to Martin Paone. Paone, who served as a Democratic Senate floor staffer for 29 years, has been advising Democrats as they craft their legislative strategy. He proposes that Democrats try to get 60 votes to waive the Byrd Rule -- which would then allow the inclusion of those non-budget-related provision in one bill that would require only 51 votes for final passage.

    What's the advantage? And why would any senator who opposes the entire bill vote for such a waiver? The answer can be found in the specific proposals that would be in violation of the Byrd Rule. Mostly, those would include reforms to the way the insurance industry operates -- for example, a ban on using preexisting conditions to deny coverage, or a law that insurance companies can't drop a client just because they get sick.

    Those are wildly popular reforms. Getting 60 votes to support those policies is much easier than getting 60 for a public health insurance option, which Republicans and some conservative Democrats oppose.

    Conservative senators such as Mary Landrieu (D-La.), Ben Nelson (D-Neb.) or Olympia Snowe (R-Maine) could, in voting for a Byrd Rule waiver, put themselves on the record as being in support of popular insurance industry reforms, while still opposing final passage of the bill -- a political strategy that may be appealing to them."
    RECONCILIATION: Should Be A Household Word ! - Greg Jones - Open Salon

    Don't worry, be happy!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #129
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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    old news, bobby, paone's been out there for months

    try to keep up

    Reid: Saturday vote, won't use reconciliation - Live Pulse - POLITICO.com

    and STILL not a word about what's actually IN THE BILL?

    LOL!

    chance of passage swiftly sinks
    cuz republicans own the links
    don't worry, be happy

  10. #130
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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Lieberman Digs In on Public Option - WSJ.com

    Lieberman says 'NO'. Democrats should have maintained a big tent for Lieberman.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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