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Thread: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

  1. #91
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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    reconciliation brings major problems

    it's weak, it's designed specifically for temporary, immediate budget outlays to avoid lockdown

    that is, 2/3 of what's contemplated by obamacare cannot be passed via the nuclear option

    all the social stuff would have to be stripped

    also, reconciliation is very temporary, it has to be reupped periodically, frequently

    most of reid's visions don't assume reality til after 2014, for example

    most of all, reconciliation lacks political credibility

    it is rightly seen as a cheap political tactic put into effect by a party that can't get what it wants thru normal parliamentary procedure

    it lacks legitimacy

    besides, reid on friday ruled reconciliation out, "flatly"

    Reid: Saturday vote, won't use reconciliation - Live Pulse - POLITICO.com

    you really need to get a tv

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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Well, the Democrats are extremely stupid to make this legislation not take effect until 2014.
    They should've made it effective immediately.
    Now, the people will see no results, be disillusioned, and the GOP will sweep the floor in 2010.
    Personally, I'm fed up with supporting the Democrats ever election cycle and then seeing them not deliver.
    I think we need to kick the blue dogs out... they only get in the way and make everything suck.

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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    this, from the careful constitutionalist who thinks it requires but a simple majority of 51 to END DEBATE

    LOL!
    My original statement was, "This opens the path to Congress passing Health Care Reform with a simple majority of 51 votes!!!"

    I said nothing about 51 votes to end debate. If they got 60 votes to begin the debate, I see no problem in getting 60 votes to end debate. There will be even more pressure brought against the Blue dogs to end debate.

    It is my opinion reconciliation will be used to pass the final bill for Obama to sign.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  4. #94
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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by Neitzluber View Post
    Well, the Democrats are extremely stupid to make this legislation not take effect until 2014.
    They should've made it effective immediately.
    Now, the people will see no results, be disillusioned, and the GOP will sweep the floor in 2010.
    Personally, I'm fed up with supporting the Democrats ever election cycle and then seeing them not deliver.
    I think we need to kick the blue dogs out... they only get in the way and make everything suck.
    i appreciate your frustration

    if the dems had followed your advice and put bennies in immediately, however, cbo's scoring woulda killed the bill

    why do you think reid had to play so clever as to count 10 years of revenue vs 6 years of expenses?

    at least leadership sees it as a problem

    you see? it's not just ME

    Senate Dems eyeing earlier enactment for healthcare reform - TheHill.com

    David S. Broder - David Broder: Fears of health-reform cost are justifiable

    RealClearPolitics - Video - Harry Reid Suggests Health Care to Cost $2 Trillion

    Health care plan to take 3 years getting started | Medical Industry News - cleveland.com - - cleveland.com

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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    If they got 60 votes to begin the debate, I see no problem in getting 60 votes to end debate.
    you see no problem?

    the party sure does

    as does the ap:

    RealClearPolitics - Politics - Nov 22, 2009 - Senate Democrats at odds over health care bill

    as do jiltin joe, stiff neck nelson and the nyt:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/23/he...s.html?_r=2&hp

    lieberman has made clear half a dozen times he'll filibuster

    he reiterated his resolve once more today on nbc's mtp

    “if the public option is still in there, the only resort we have is to say no at the end to reporting the bill off the floor,” gibed jiltin joe

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/23/he...health.html?hp

    you think he's bluffing?

    try him

    the financial times also sees problems you don't

    FT.com / US & Canada - Splits widen for Democrats over health reform

    so does politico:

    Democrats hold line, but cracks show - Carrie Budoff Brown - POLITICO.com

    There will be even more pressure brought against the Blue dogs to end debate.
    the bluedogs do their barking in the house

    they can't filibuster and they've already voted

    there is no canine coalition in the upper house

    It is my opinion reconciliation will be used to pass the final bill for Obama to sign
    you know how seriously i heed your opinion, friend

    but, sadly, leader reid differs

    read the links
    Last edited by The Prof; 11-23-09 at 02:10 AM.

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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    you see no problem?

    the party sure does

    as does the ap:

    RealClearPolitics - Politics - Nov 22, 2009 - Senate Democrats at odds over health care bill

    as do jiltin joe, stiff neck nelson and the nyt:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/23/he...s.html?_r=2&hp

    lieberman has made clear half a dozen times he'll filibuster

    he reiterated his resolve once more today on nbc's mtp

    “if the public option is still in there, the only resort we have is to say no at the end to reporting the bill off the floor,” gibed jiltin joe

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/23/he...health.html?hp

    you think he's bluffing?

    try him

    the financial times also sees problems you don't

    FT.com / US & Canada - Splits widen for Democrats over health reform

    so does politico:

    Democrats hold line, but cracks show - Carrie Budoff Brown - POLITICO.com



    the bluedogs do their barking in the house

    they can't filibuster and they've already voted

    there is no canine coalition in the upper house



    you know how seriously i heed your opinion, friend

    but, sadly, leader reid differs

    read the links
    It ain't over till the fat lady sings! I don't sweat the small ****. All the pundits never thought we would get the 60 votes to begin the debate, yet we did!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    My original statement was, "This opens the path to Congress passing Health Care Reform with a simple majority of 51 votes!!!"
    no, it opens the path to THE SENATE to try to get 60 so that a vote can take place

    hello

    more problems---incentives in the bill for employers to drop coverage

    it shouldn't be necessary to point out that this aint me talking

    it's cnn

    (actually, it's all over the place, cnn was the fastest find)

    The Baucus health-care bill's negative repercussions - Oct. 9, 2009

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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post

    more problems---

    Don't worry, be happy!!!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    catawba croons:

    all we need is fifty one
    why sweat nelson and lieberman
    don't worry
    be happy

    LOL!

  10. #100
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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    My original statement was, "This opens the path to Congress passing Health Care Reform with a simple majority of 51 votes!!!"

    I said nothing about 51 votes to end debate. If they got 60 votes to begin the debate, I see no problem in getting 60 votes to end debate. There will be even more pressure brought against the Blue dogs to end debate.

    It is my opinion reconciliation will be used to pass the final bill for Obama to sign.
    They just barely got 60. Only one single Senator needs to switch to ruin that. It's still a shaky proposition.

    I think getting cloture now actually makes it politically hard to use reconciliation later. It looks even sneakier. But it may happen.

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