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Thread: Historic Health Care Bill Nears Key Senate Vote

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    Re: Historic Health Care Bill Nears Key Senate Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    Wait a minute...what about the filibuster? and Joe Lieberman?
    We have sleepers everywhere, boo.

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    Re: Historic Health Care Bill Nears Key Senate Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    The title is a bit deceptive, the Senate is going to vote on starting the debate on health care this Saturday night.



    Maybe I'm wrong, but both sides of the aisle have agreed we need to do something about health care, and regardless of whats in the bill, this vote will allow that necessary discussion to begin. So, my question is, who in their right mind would not want to discuss this health care bill. If it changes, okay, but this is just about starting the debate about it.

    Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle - Yahoo! News
    No, this is about ENDING the debate about it. This vote prevents a filibuster.

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    Re: Historic Health Care Bill Nears Key Senate Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsunami View Post
    I may be wrong but I believe this is how the Senate works.. you only need 50 votes to pass a bill, but you need 60 votes to start the debate (and prevent a filibuster). So if you really want to stop it from becoming law you vote against it going to the floor entirely. That's just good strategy.
    Correct, except it doesn't technically start the debate, it limits it to one hour per Senator (for each vote - there could be votes on amendments). Without cloture, which is what the 60-vote thing was, any Senator could talk as long as he or she wanted, i.e., filibuster.

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    Re: Historic Health Care Bill Nears Key Senate Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    If they "really" believed in Competition, they'd remove the barriers to inter-state insurance, and let that work it's self out for a decade or so before pushing any sort of "government option". It's very dishonest, and shows the lack of honesty in those that try to claim they support the "government option" because they believe in "competition"
    That's EXACTLY what this bill does. It removes the barriers to inter-state insurance! It creates a national "exchange" for people and employers to buy insurance.

    The public option is merely that - an option that would be offered for people who want to buy it. It would not be run by tax money, only premiums. Nobody would be forced to choose it. Some versions of the bill don't even contain a public option.

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    Re: Historic Health Care Bill Nears Key Senate Vote

    P.S. Just saw some media reports that say the vote "starts" debate on the bill. That's not technically true, but it is for practical purposes because if it had failed and the threat of filibuster remained, the Democrats would probably have just given up rather than face a filibuster.

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    Re: Historic Health Care Bill Nears Key Senate Vote

    I'm pretty sure this vote only starts debate. It is why Nelson is voting for debate in the first place, so that he could change the bill before final vote, otherwise it makes zero sense. All it takes is all republicans + Lieberman and booyah, filibuster wins. 60 votes fails.
    Last edited by DarkWizard12; 11-21-09 at 09:46 PM.

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    Re: Historic Health Care Bill Nears Key Senate Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    I'm pretty sure this vote only starts debate. It is why Nelson is voting for debate in the first place, so that he could change the bill before final vote, otherwise it makes zero sense. All it takes is all republicans + Lieberman and booyah, filibuster wins. 60 votes fails.
    No, cloture limits debate, it doesn't start debate. The Senate can start debate any time they want. The reason this effectively starts debate is because the threat of a filibuster is gone. Without that, there would be no point in starting debate. So it does "start" debate, but technically it merely puts a time limit on it.

    Everything you wanted to know about cloture but were afraid to ask:

    U.S. Senate: Reference Home > Virtual Reference Desk > Cloture

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    Re: Historic Health Care Bill Nears Key Senate Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    No, cloture limits debate, it doesn't start debate. The Senate can start debate any time they want. The reason this effectively starts debate is because the threat of a filibuster is gone. Without that, there would be no point in starting debate. So it does "start" debate, but technically it merely puts a time limit on it.

    Everything you wanted to know about cloture but were afraid to ask:

    U.S. Senate: Reference Home > Virtual Reference Desk > Cloture
    But isn't a flibuster when some senator gets to the floor and keeps the floor forever...and ever...and ever? Otherwise, please explain to me how Lieberman voted fr cloture when he said he would not?
    Last edited by DarkWizard12; 11-21-09 at 11:33 PM.

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    Re: Historic Health Care Bill Nears Key Senate Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    But isn't a flibuster when some senator gets to the floor and keeps the floor forever...and ever...and ever? Otherwise, please explain to me how Lieberman voted fr cloture when he said he would not?
    He obviously changed his mind. You'll have to ask him why. I'm sure lots of people are right now.

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    Faux News Is Lying About Rationing Again

    Quick fact: Wallace falsely claims health bills direct task force to decide what services "aren't covered" | Media Matters for America

    Faux News Is Lying About Rationing Again


    On Fox News Sunday, host Chris Wallace falsely claimed that it's a "fact" that the House and Senate health care bills direct the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force to "determine what services, what tests, screening, are covered and aren't covered," and asked whether that amounts to "government rationing."

    In fact, the bills require insurers to implement task force recommendations in favor of specific preventive care, but they are not required to adopt those that recommend against preventive screening.

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