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Thread: Obama "very close" to Afghan troop decision: TV report

  1. #271
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    Re: Obama "very close" to Afghan troop decision: TV report

    me, too, gysgt

    i profess to having no clue about what to do in afghanistan

    i just know the politics here at home, that after obama addresses the nation from west point tuesday, he's gonna have one hella pissed off dem party in washington to deal with

    the congressional black caucus is gonna go ballistic over this by wednesday morning

    msnbc's gonna be one angry network when i wake up that day

    he's gonna have more than half of his own party in strong disagreement with his decision to ESCALATE over there

    that all-capped E-word really bothers folks on the flowery side

    obama's gonna do his own SURGE

    libs aint gonna like it, he's acting just like bush

    people on my side of the aisle---politically---are gonna question his commitment

    either way, thanks for all you do for us, i feel a debt i can never repay

    stay safe, please

    and thank your people for us, too, your mom first and foremost

    cliff

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    Re: Obama "very close" to Afghan troop decision: TV report

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    me, too, gysgt

    i profess to having no clue about what to do in afghanistan

    i just know the politics here at home, that after obama addresses the nation from west point tuesday, he's gonna have one hella pissed off dem party in washington to deal with

    the congressional black caucus is gonna go ballistic over this by wednesday morning

    msnbc's gonna be one angry network when i wake up that day

    he's gonna have more than half of his own party in strong disagreement with his decision to ESCALATE over there

    that all-capped E-word really bothers folks on the flowery side

    obama's gonna do his own SURGE

    libs aint gonna like it, he's acting just like bush

    people on my side of the aisle---politically---are gonna question his commitment

    either way, thanks for all you do for us, i feel a debt i can never repay

    stay safe, please

    and thank your people for us, too, your mom first and foremost

    cliff

  3. #273
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    Re: Obama "very close" to Afghan troop decision: TV report

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackboot View Post
    I respect you Marine, is there anyone you know, that thinks we should come home?
    Of course...at all levels. I see it in the voices of those who wear stars and are asking for more troops and those who are students in Comm School asking about who the enemy is. But then again, there are also plenty who are just looking to get back in the fight wherever that is and could care less about wider visionary things.

    In the end there are only two options that are at least practical...

    1) Give the Generals what they have voiced to need.

    -OR-

    2) Pull out and simply execute punitive strikes upon the bad guys as we please from afar in conjunction with MEU and special forces.


    Number 2 is the best option because Afghanistan is never going to be anything but Afghanistan. In the end we will only be legitimizing a horribly corrupt government that seeks the preservation of distinct clans rather than a national unity (In this sense, this is at least a little better than Vietnam.) We will simply give further "ammo" to the religious extremists who seek earthly justification for his salvational calling.

    Denying the commanders the troops they are asking for is exactly what Rumsfeld did and we saw the results of not listening to the duty experts. Opting to order the troops to bring an impractical victory where there is none without the tools it clearly states that it needs will only make this effort longer, costlier, and deadlier than it has to be (sound familiar?). If this happens, just wait and see how quickly the Democrats and Liberals cling to support their guy just like Republicans and Conservatives did for Bush. And both will lose sight of the military's side of things as they rush to blame all the wrong things and criticize the military for not bringing absolute victory as defined by the media.
    Last edited by MSgt; 11-29-09 at 01:52 AM.

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  4. #274
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    Re: Obama "very close" to Afghan troop decision: TV report

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    Of course...at all levels. I see it in the voices of those who wear stars and are asking for more troops and those who are students in Comm School asking about who the enemy is. But then again, there are also plenty who are just looking to get back in the fight wherever that is.

    In the end there are only two options that are at least practical...

    1) Give the Generals what they have voiced to need.

    -OR-

    2) Pull out and simply execute punitive strikes upon the bad guys as we please from afar in conjunction with MEU and special forces.


    Number 2 is the best option because Afghanistan is never going to be anything but Afghanistan. In the end we will only be legitimizing a horribly corrupt government that seeks the preservation of distinct clans rather than a national unity (In this sense, this is at least a little better than Vietnam.) We will simply give further "ammo" to the religious extremists who seek earthly justification for his salvational calling.

    Denying the commanders the troops they are asking for is exactly what Rumsfeld did and we saw the results of not listening to the duty experts. If this happens, just wait and see how quickly the Democrats and Liberals cling to support their guy just like Republicans and Conservatives did for Bush. And both will lose sight of the military's side in their quest to prove their partisan slavery (but blame the military for not bringing absolute victory as defined by the media).
    Thank you for that, and I agree, the second option is the best option, and I hope our brothers and sisters get home soon!

  5. #275
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    Re: Obama "very close" to Afghan troop decision: TV report

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackboot View Post
    Thank you for that, and I agree, the second option is the best option, and I hope our brothers and sisters get home soon!
    Well, if they don't then they will do the best they can with what our civilian leaders leave them with. Nothing new.

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    Re: Obama "very close" to Afghan troop decision: TV report

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    Well, if they don't then they will do the best they can with what our civilian leaders leave them with. Nothing new.
    I don't know what to say.....I just want them to come home, they have served their country well, for eight long years. I just wish I could thank each and everyone of them for their service. I hate war, I hate the military industrial complex, but I love our troops, and I want them home, I cannot stress this enough, I think they need to come home, now!

  7. #277
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    Re: Obama "very close" to Afghan troop decision: TV report

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    That's between you and who you discuss with. For me, if you wish to know something, I'll see what I can do to explain. Let me explain this...

    The military has spent 8 years in Afghanistan developing cultural knowledge and wisdom. It has spent 11 years studying the Iraqi culture (ignored by the Rumsfeld coven) and another 6 years in Iraq up close with the culture. Couped with my persoinal dribve to undertand my enemy and my personal education in Middle Eastern studies I feel confident enough to carry on a discussion (if only to understand things a bit better for myself).

    They are two different cultures and thusly two diffferent kinds of people. If you still refuse to see this then let me put it to you a different way...

    The Russians were at a crossroad after the Berlin Wall came down. They could have traveled the western world of success or sought something familiar. In the later part of Yeltsin's presidency and throughout Putin's, they chose to surrender their individual liberties and freedoms one by one in exchange for security. Is something western Europeans could do? Americans? These are different civilizations with different cultures and histories. The Middle East is no different.

    But if you prefer to "nu-uh" what I offer or to fall back on the "prove it" dismissals while refusing to perform a simple google search, then live in ignorance and do me a favor - ignore me.




    As compared to Iraq? No. Don't confuse the difference between individuals and a society. The population of Afghanistan is largely "clan" based. Iraq is "tribal" based. Those who are educated in Afghanistan spend an enormous amount of time focused on clan power and preservation over national good.

    Iraq spent a few years battering their way through their historical tendency's to hate each other. The Shia sought revenge while the Sunni sought to further prove their superiority. In the end, the two distinct tribes grew tired of swimming in Muslim blood. What they have is their long line of educational base amongst its population to push foreward. Afghanistan does not have this advantage. They are clan (gang, thugs, warlords,) based. Those who lived in the cities were only somewhat educated if they were males and they were subjected to Saudi built Madrasahs where religious Sharia was a big part of curriculum. Or do you think the secular Saddam Hussein and the religious Tali-Ban had similar goals in its education systems?


    Think of Somalia and the almost impossibility of national unity and you will have an idea of what your troops are dealing with in Afghanistan while our politicians far away in Washington profess to know what's best.
    Nice rant do you have proof

  8. #278
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    Re: Obama "very close" to Afghan troop decision: TV report

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    So how is that different than Iraq?
    The Iraqis are a very intelligent people compared to the Afghans and they were already used to a central government unlike Afghanistan where they have always governed under a tribal system.

    Which is why backing up the corrupt central government there installed by the last administration has failed for the last 8 years.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Obama "very close" to Afghan troop decision: TV report

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The Iraqis are a very intelligent people compared to the Afghans and they were already used to a central government unlike Afghanistan where they have always governed under a tribal system.

    Which is why backing up the corrupt central government there installed by the last administration has failed for the last 8 years.
    So Saddam the dictator was a central government?

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    Re: Obama "very close" to Afghan troop decision: TV report

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    So Saddam the dictator was a central government?
    It is my understanding that he pretty much called the shots for Iraq. Was there another I am unaware of? One entity, good of bad, running the country pretty much defines a central government.

    If it doesn't fit your preconceived notions about Iraq, I am sorry. Under Sadam, Iraq became one of the most well educated countries in the Middle East.

    What do you base your claim on that Afghanistan is anywhere close to the sophistication of pre-occupation Iraq?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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