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Thread: AP POLL: Tax the rich to pay for health bill

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    Re: AP POLL: Tax the rich to pay for health bill

    This whole argument is DOA, there will be no health care reform, we are going to be lucky if we can avoid a total collapse of the dollar.

    The poor get food, housing, etc, this is enough, more then enough.

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    Re: AP POLL: Tax the rich to pay for health bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackboot View Post
    This whole argument is DOA, there will be no health care reform, we are going to be lucky if we can avoid a total collapse of the dollar.

    The poor get food, housing, etc, this is enough, more then enough.
    They also get free cell phones with 70 free minutes a months in some areas.
    There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

    Originally Posted by PogueMoran
    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

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    Re: AP POLL: Tax the rich to pay for health bill

    Our new leaders just put the kabash on this health care plan, the chinese have told us this is too expensive, expect the politicians to all fall in line.

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    Re: AP POLL: Tax the rich to pay for health bill

    Indeed. It is also easier to lose money. It is a risk to invest. This is a desirable activity that we want to encourage as it creates jobs.
    Doesn't really matter whose hands the money is in. The winner will be compelled one way or another to step into the loser's place in the network, or gradually lose his capital to those who are, and will start performing the same set of power-mongering actions as his predecessors. As far as their social functions go, people can usually be substituted for somebody else without the overall processes society is engaging in changing much. So long as the wealth is concentrated somewhere, it is working some mischief in the media or planning on extorting some special privilege from the government or law. Besides, you can usually count on large sums of money being concentrated in certain agencies for at least several generations. Generally speaking, there is a trend where people who get into wealth can have their families look forward to it for awhile. I don't really care who is getting charged more, provided they had more at the time.


    Yes, it's true. Because they own assets. What this has to do with your claim that a progressive tax is equitable, I have no idea. Make your case.
    Its not. Short of divinely engineered policy, which is unlikely, tax systems can't be equitable. In the case of a truly fair progressive income tax system, it would be too hard to keep re-calculating the variables year by year while still providing money for the government's established expenses, which nearly always end up costing an amount different from what the policy stipulates, be it more or less. However, the needs of society as a whole may depend on varying rates on different brackets. You might be able to deny those needs sometimes, but you can't consistently do so and anticipate the survival of your civilization. That's also why it doesn't happen and libertarians get frustrated. Furthermore, though I doubt any existing progressive tax system is equitable, I know a flat tax system is just as inequitable because it does not consider how wealth multiplies exponentially, not proportionally, meaning that when you take away equal rates of money from a middle-class person and a wealthy person, you are hurting the middle-class person's ability to participate fairly in the market far more than the wealthy person's; since it is far harder for a middle-class person to make up for what they lose (in terms of getting more capital and prospering) than the wealthy person (who is far less bothered as far as getting more capital and prospering goes). It wouldn't be fair to charge them evenly for that reason.

    On average, investing absolutely creates growth and jobs. There are economic downturns in a capitalist society. But if you look at the relative growth numbers between the US and a Social Democratic country with higher taxes and less investment power, you will find that the US comes out on top.
    That doesn't mean our quality of life or security is higher. It just means we generate more money. The fruits of how that money is spent can easily be poisonous.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 11-17-09 at 07:10 PM.
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    Re: AP POLL: Tax the rich to pay for health bill

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    All this is designed to appeal to the welfare class.
    That's only part of it. The more significant issue is how do we get people out from a system of unhealthy lifestyles to living healthier while also providing affordable means of health care to all so that we, as a nation and not just groups or classes of people, can all be healthier contributors to society rather than be a drain on it? That's the big picture I see, and health care reform even as flawed as the current House proposal may be goes a long way towards putting this nation on a path towards doing just that.

    Where you (meaning one diverse group) see "class warfare" today, I see a good effort to make a healthier, more productive and more cost effective union in the long-term.

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    Re: AP POLL: Tax the rich to pay for health bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    That's only part of it. The more significant issue is how do we get people out from a system of unhealthy lifestyles to living healthier while also providing affordable means of health care to all so that we, as a nation and not just groups or classes of people, can all be healthier contributors to society rather than be a drain on it? That's the big picture I see, and health care reform even as flawed as the current House proposal may be goes a long way towards putting this nation on a path towards doing just that.

    Where you (meaning one diverse group) see "class warfare" today, I see a good effort to make a healthier, more productive and more cost effective union in the long-term.
    Nonsense, there are plenty of healthy americans in this country, the fat, lazy, addicted, they should die, and we should focus a bright hot light on their demise!

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    Re: AP POLL: Tax the rich to pay for health bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    They also get free cell phones with 70 free minutes a months in some areas.
    I have a place in Mexico, and if you see the poor there, you will find it very hard to have any sympathy for the so called "poor" in America.

    Poor people in America have cars, cell phones, microwave ovens, $500 gaming systems, a couple of TV's, ipods, mp3 players, computers, stereo systems, CD players, their kids wear $150 tennis shoes, and they aren't dying of starvation by any means. Yet it is these same people who complain because they can't pay their electric bill... give me a break.

    In Mexico, people live within their means, and don't rely on the government to provide for their families. That's the way it used to be here in the US. When I was a kid, families did everything possible to avoid the shame of having to ask the government for anything. It was a matter of pride. Today, lower income families see government assistance as a lifestyle, rather than a last resort.

    .

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    Re: AP POLL: Tax the rich to pay for health bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackboot View Post
    Nonsense, there are plenty of healthy americans in this country, the fat, lazy, addicted, they should die, and we should focus a bright hot light on their demise!
    Ah! Then you're no different than those who suggest "death panels" are part of health care reform, i.e., since fat, lazy, unhealthy Americans should die, may as well knock off old, unemployeed grandma who's draining Medicare and living off SSI. Right?

    Think before you speak...
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 11-17-09 at 07:10 PM.

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    Re: AP POLL: Tax the rich to pay for health bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    That's only part of it. The more significant issue is how do we get people out from a system of unhealthy lifestyles to living healthier while also providing affordable means of health care to all so that we, as a nation and not just groups or classes of people, can all be healthier contributors to society rather than be a drain on it?
    Ahhhhhhhhh...... the truth comes out....
    There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

    Originally Posted by PogueMoran
    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

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    Re: AP POLL: Tax the rich to pay for health bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackboot View Post
    Nonsense, there are plenty of healthy americans in this country, the fat, lazy, addicted, they should die, and we should focus a bright hot light on their demise!
    These are the ones that want free health care, and think they will get it from the government.
    There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

    Originally Posted by PogueMoran
    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

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