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Thread: AP POLL: Tax the rich to pay for health bill

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    Re: AP POLL: Tax the rich to pay for health bill

    You can't really say the wealthy are being treated unequally. In a capitalist society, material power, defined as the ability to influence outcomes in socio-political networks (usually to acquire good things or cause events advantageous to you), raises exponentially, not proportionally, as wealth goes up. Charging people of different income brackets at the same rate would not be treating them equally because every bracket up increases the exponent of material power.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 11-17-09 at 06:00 PM.
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    Re: AP POLL: Tax the rich to pay for health bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    You can't really say the wealthy are being treated unequally. In a capitalist society, material power, defined as the ability to influence outcomes in socio-political networks (usually to acquire good things or cause events advantageous to you), raises exponentially, not proportionally, as wealth goes up. Charging people of different income brackets at the same rate would not be treating them equally because every bracket up increases the exponent of material power.
    Being wealthy doesn't enable a person to any more voting power than it does a poor person. Therefore charging them a higher rate for the same services is unequal treatment.
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    Re: AP POLL: Tax the rich to pay for health bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    "Support this plan, and we'll stick it to the rich guy, so that -you- can have something for free!"

    Class warfare anyone?

    Can anyone tell me how someone that cannot buy their own health care has the right to have someone else be forced to provide it to him?
    All this is designed to appeal to the welfare class.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: AP POLL: Tax the rich to pay for health bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    You can't really say the wealthy are being treated unequally. In a capitalist society, material power, defined as the ability to influence outcomes in socio-political networks (usually to acquire good things or cause events advantageous to you), raises exponentially, not proportionally, as wealth goes up. Charging people of different income brackets at the same rate would not be treating them equally because every bracket up increases the exponent of material power.
    I totally disagree with this. I am against progressive taxes...hell I am against income taxes.

    First up, progressive taxes are not equitable. Pairing a higher percentage as your income grows is like a double-tax. If it was a flat rate, you would still pay more in absolute amount. Of course, there are more tax shelters and deductions the wealthier you get.

    Then we will say that we don't want to tax investment. Investment is what creates growth and jobs.

    So the best solution is to have a consumption tax, a flat rate on whatever you purchase. Not only individuals, but also corporations will pay this as they buy equipment and services. Washington State has an 8.8% sales tax and no state income tax.

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    Re: AP POLL: Tax the rich to pay for health bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    Link Here

    Seems this poll finds that a majority no longer believe in equality. Or don't care as long as they get their way.
    Well the majority paid billions of dollars the tiny minority of the population responsible for this crisis. I think its only fair these individuals return the favor.

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    Re: AP POLL: Tax the rich to pay for health bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Whip Comes Down View Post
    A majority supports a government-sponsored heath insurance plan to compete with private insurers.

    The “public option” component of reform is an example of how details matter. Overall 53 percent in this poll favor a government-backed alternative to private insurance in general, a modest majority down a bit from 57 percent last month. But support rises sharply, to 72 percent, if the option is limited to people who do not receive insurance from an employer or through the existing Medicare or Medicaid programs, as called for in the House-passed version.

    http://abcnews.go.com/images/Polling...HealthCare.pdf
    530 or 720 people are now a majority of America... ok....
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    Re: AP POLL: Tax the rich to pay for health bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    Being wealthy doesn't enable a person to any more voting power than it does a poor person. Therefore charging them a higher rate for the same services is unequal treatment.
    Voting is only one form of power in our society and its a rather weak one because it is dispersed among a large and disjointed number of persons. At least of itself. Voting can become formidable when those monetarily invested in any kind of media network extort the producers to emphasize a particular aspect of a story or drive a particular political or moral message. Even collective voting is usually more of an instrument of someone who possesses more capital in a capitalist society than an act of free will on the part of its agents.

    In a more contemporary example, it is power of their financial position that enables capitalists to secure government hand-outs to maintain their operations with only minimal reprisals for management mistakes or illegalities. Since their place in America's socio-political-economic network often makes them instrumental to both prosperity and domestic as well as foreign security, a successful capitalist can usually depend on his position as a second guard against his company's bankruptcy.

    Indeed, since both Democrats and Republicans were determined to have a bail-out in order to ensure the financial security of the United States, regardless of whether or not a majority of Americans were willing, it is clear that power in the United States resides in expensive property more than in our voting rights.

    First up, progressive taxes are not equitable. Pairing a higher percentage as your income grows is like a double-tax. If it was a flat rate, you would still pay more in absolute amount. Of course, there are more tax shelters and deductions the wealthier you get.
    No, because once you have money it is easier to make more money, and once you have money you can start buying up shares in valuable capital like media outlets or campaign trails or companies that can secure taxpayer money to secure their own assets for the future. Granted, there are both legal and informal processes in place to guard against the influence of successful capitalists on the micromanagement of every element of society, but a single capitalist can still exert more influence in his region (and along with other capitalists, more influence nationally and even internationally) than any single person among the middle class -- or indeed, a large group of people or whole communities.

    Then we will say that we don't want to tax investment. Investment is what creates growth and jobs.
    No single economic practice consistently creates growth or jobs. Besides, there is a lot going on with investment.

    So the best solution is to have a consumption tax, a flat rate on whatever you purchase. Not only individuals, but also corporations will pay this as they buy equipment and services. Washington State has an 8.8% sales tax and no state income tax.
    There is no best solution, partially because the economy isn't always the most compelling concern of the United States. There is only the most functional solution at the time, given the array of dangers surrounding our country.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 11-17-09 at 06:39 PM.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

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    Re: AP POLL: Tax the rich to pay for health bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Another internet rich guy.
    He's more like an internet rash.

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    Re: AP POLL: Tax the rich to pay for health bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    No, because once you have money it is easier to make more money,
    Indeed. It is also easier to lose money. It is a risk to invest. This is a desirable activity that we want to encourage as it creates jobs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    and once you have money you can start buying up shares in valuable capital like media outlets or campaign trails or companies that can secure taxpayer money to secure their own assets for the future. Granted, there are both legal and informal processes in place to guard against the influence of successful capitalists on the micromanagement of every element of society, but a single capitalist can still exert more influence in his region (and along with other capitalists, more influence nationally and even internationally) than any single person among the middle class -- or indeed, a large group of people or whole communities.
    Yes, it's true. Because they own assets. What this has to do with your claim that a progressive tax is equitable, I have no idea. Make your case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    No single economic practice consistently creates growth or jobs.
    On average, investing absolutely creates growth and jobs. There are economic downturns in a capitalist society. But if you look at the relative growth numbers between the US and a Social Democratic country with higher taxes and less investment power, you will find that the US comes out on top.

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    Re: AP POLL: Tax the rich to pay for health bill

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    He's more like an internet rash.
    He's just trying to impress everyone..... and failing.
    There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

    Originally Posted by PogueMoran
    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

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