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AP POLL: Tax the rich to pay for health bill

Whip Comes Down said:
The farmer will see his government supported, his children educated, and the face of his country made a paradise by the contributions of the rich alone, without his being called on to spend a cent from his earnings.

--Thomas Jefferson to Thaddeus Kosciusko, 1811.​
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I've seen this quote used like this before. TJ would be upset if he saw what you were doing with his words, whip.

What you fail to realize is that 'the farmer' in Thomas Jefferson's era was a necessity to the economy as much as (or more than) any rich man. Farmers were necessary for keeping the people fed, that was THEIR contribution to the economy, they weren't impoverished welfare recipients, struggling to get by.

gtfo, troll.
 
Crunch said:
I do believe that is exactly what Grim said.
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It's not even close to what he said. He's saying this news article, focused solely on on the public opinion of how the health care bill should be paid for, should also state how majority doesn't support the health care bill.

What does support of the health care bill have to do with how people think it should be paid for? If you support it or not you still have an opinion on how it should be paid for if passed.
 
Gibberish said:
It's not even close to what he said. He's saying this news article, focused solely on on the public opinion of how the health care bill should be paid for, should also state how majority doesn't support the health care bill.

What does support of the health care bill have to do with how people think it should be paid for? If you support it or not you still have an opinion on how it should be paid for if passed.
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It was a propaganda piece for the administration.... thus the message that could be diluted (your point), and the story that smells more like some ones political agenda, than it does news(Grim).

Get it?
 
Morality Games said:
Uh, high rates of illiteracy and a more dysfunctional government can contribute to that self-sufficiency out of necessity. The people of Mexico don't really have a sense that things could be better.

Besides, you are exaggerating the rosiness of the situation of the American poor. What you are describing is more like the lower middle class.
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No, it isn't. I have several friends that live in the projects of west and south Phoenix. One of which, I visit at least once a week when I'm in town. I went to high school and lived in a lower middle class neighborhood, that ended up being classified as "gang banger" territory within 5 years of graduating high school, so I know what I'm talking about.

The friend of mine has 2 girls, lives in government subsidized housing, collects welfare, food stamps and is on ACCESS. Sometimes she works, sometimes she doesn't, but let me tell you, her and her kids have plenty. They have an Xbox, a PC, 3 TV's (including cable) and she has an old, but good running car. It's basically the same for everyone in the entire project she lives in. Lot's of gang activity and drugs, not to mention the nightly gun fire.

The point is, they are the most well fed and affluent poor people on the face of the earth. No offense to my friend, but they wouldn't know what it means to really struggle and do without, if it bit them on the ass.

It comes down to priorities. Years ago, people didn't look to the government to bail them out and provide for their families. They took responsibility for their lives and earned their luxuries, rather than seeing luxuries as their right.

.
 
reefedjib said:
First up, progressive taxes are not equitable.
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A heavy progressive tax upon a very large fortune is in no way such a tax upon thrift or industry as a like would be on a small fortune. No advantage comes either to the country as a whole or to the individuals inheriting the money by permitting the transmission in their entirety of the enormous fortunes which would be affected by such a tax; and as an incident to its function of revenue raising, such a tax would help to preserve a measurable equality of opportunity for the people of the generations growing to manhood.
 
Jackboot said:
Yes, we should not pay for older people to live another ten years, they should die as well. If they can afford their own expensive care, great, if not, well then they should just pass on. We made this promise to people to gain votes, no one ever considered how much this would cost, we all get old, our bodies all wear out, and it is very expensive to keep these people alive.

I would ask you to think.....but that seems impossible.
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Now, you've gone and make it a personal dig. Why?

All I was saying was you've got people out there who honestly believe the Dems are trying to kill grandma, but here it is one of the opposition's own have finally owned up to this controversial issue.

"Kill the worthless! The aged, the over-weight, the crippled, the drug addicts, the dreadge of society! No health care for them!! Kill them all!!!"

You've got guts, laddy. I just wish your coherts would be as brave and own up to it.

And for the record, part of me agrees with you - the logical side. But the human side says, "Nope, can't do it." Everyone deserves the chance to live out their lives to the fullest for as long as they can. And if modern science affords them that opportunity, then who am I to say they aren't entitled to that opportunity? The catch here is "to the fullest". So, if it's determined that a person's odds of living a full and productive life are near 0 or less than 0, maybe the right thing to do is not to prolong their life, but to let them die gracefully.

But I'll leave that argument to those more suitable to argue for or against...doctors, physicians, pastors, priest and the clergy. For me, all I can tell you is when both my parents where nearing the end of their lives, my siblings (and to a degree my parents as well) all choose to let nature take its course. We only asked medical science to provide a means whereby they could pass from this life comfortably into the next. Not everyone would be willing (or able) to do that, but then again my parents had great health care coverage, as well as life insurance. So....
 
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The really big fortune, the swollen fortune, by the mere fact of its size, acquires qualities which differentiate it in kind as well as in degree from what is possessed by men of relatively small means. Therefore, I believe in a graduated income tax on big fortunes, and in another tax which is far more easily collected and far more effective, a graduated inheritance tax on big fortunes, properly safeguarded against evasion, and increasing rapidly in amount with the size of the estate."
 
Crunch said:
It was a propaganda piece for the administration.... thus the message that could be diluted (your point), and the story that smells more like some ones political agenda, than it does news(Grim).

Get it?
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I see more political agenda from Grim's end in being upset that the writer didn't focus on the questions Grim thought more important.

The writer choose to do a review of those polled and how they wanted the health care bill paid for. What exactly is the political agenda in that?
 
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Objective Voice said:
Now, you've gone and make it a personal dig. Why?

All I was saying was you've got people out there who honestly believe the Dems are trying to kill grandma, but here it is one of the opposition's own have finally owned up to this controversial issue.

"Kill the worthless! The aged, the over-weight, the crippled, the drug addicts, the dreadge of society! No health care for them!! Kill them all!!!"

You've got guts, laddy. I just wish your coherts would be as brave and own up to it.

And for the record, part of me agrees with you - the logical side. But the human side says, "Nope, can't do it." Everyone deserves the chance to live out their lives to the fullest for as long as they can. And if modern science affords them that opportunity, then who am I to say they aren't entitled to that opportunity? The catch here is "to the fullest". So, if it's determined that a person's odds of living a full and productive life are near 0 or less than 0, maybe the right thing to do is not to prolong their life, but to let them die gracefully.

But I'll leave that argument to those more suitable to argue for or against...doctors, physicians, pastors, priest and the clergy. For me, all I can tell you is when both my parents where nearing the end of their lives, my siblings (and to a degree my parents as well) all choose to let nature take its course. We only asked medical science to provide a means whereby they could pass from this life comfortably into the next. Not everyone would be willing (or able) to do that, but then again my parents had great health care coverage, as well as life insurance. So....
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Now don't go getting sensitive on me, you made it personal, first. Assuming I do not think before speaking, well that is something that I take offense to, as I seem to be one of the few in this country, that is thinking. It would appear we agree after all, only you want the government to control our health care, I want to allow the free market to work, as it has for over two hundred years. You see, if you allow the government to take over, then even if you have the funds, you will find it difficult to find a doctor, or an appointment. So those who have worked hard all thier lives, done the right things, have been responsible, now they have to get in line to be treated, this is hardly a fair and just system.

Again, you have misquoted me, I don't want to "kill" anyone, I just don't want what is mine, not to be taken to care for others, I pay enough to that cause, as it is.
 
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The progressive income tax is consistent with natural law.

It does not in practice promote a narrowing uniformity or a classless society, and in fact promotes social peace.

It does not destroy private property to any significantly greater extent than any other form of taxation.

Tax reform advocates are all tradition-destroying utilitarian economists at heart.

Prudent institutional conservatives should thus resist change and support an institution, our current income tax, that successfully raises revenue and keeps the social peace.
 
Gibberish said:
I see more political agenda from Grim's end in being upset that the writer didn't focus on the questions Grim thought more important.

The writer choose to do a review of those polled and how they wanted to the health care bill paid for. What exactly is the political agenda in that?
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Let me synopsize the OP....

The poll tested views on an even more punitive taxation scheme that was under consideration earlier, when the tax would have hit people making more than $250,000 a year. Even at that level the poll showed majority support, with 57 percent in favor and 36 percent opposed.
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That was the propaganda part.

Of course what the Associated Press does not even mention in their story is probably the most relevant part: "In general, do you support, oppose or neither support nor oppose the health care reform plans being discussed in Congress? (IF SUPPORT/OPPOSE Is that strongly support/oppose or somewhat support/oppose?" To no surprise that's opposed by 43-41%. Eleven percent neither support or oppose and 4% "don't know."

Also conveniently left out of their story is the response to whether people should be penalized if they do not buy the government-run health care: Sixty-four percent oppose. Why do you suppose that was left out?

Also left out was of the respondents, 37% are unemployed or retired. No wonder they want someone to pick up the tab.

Forty-two percent think the economy will get worse if this scam is shoved down our throats, while 28% think it will improve. Again, this is left out of the story.

..... Another question left out: "How much of the time do you think you can trust the government in Washington to do what is right – just about always, most of the time, or only some of the time?" A total of 24% said all or most of the time. And we're going to trust them?
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That is the rest of the poll that shows that government run health care is not supported by the people as the propaganda piece tried to show.

Now if you can't understand that, take 50 Tylenol and call me in the morning.
 
Whip Comes Down said:
The progressive income tax is consistent with natural law.

It does not in practice promote a narrowing uniformity or a classless society, and in fact promotes social peace.

It does not destroy private property to any significantly greater extent than any other form of taxation.

Tax reform advocates are all tradition-destroying utilitarian economists at heart.

Prudent institutional conservatives should thus resist change and support an institution, our current income tax, that successfully raises revenue and keeps the social peace.
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You sound like a union boss.:shock:
 
Gibberish said:
I see more political agenda from Grim's end in being upset that the writer didn't focus on the questions Grim thought more important.

The writer choose to do a review of those polled and how they wanted to the health care bill paid for. What exactly is the political agenda in that?
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I just don't understand how someone could write a story based on a poll, focus in on the "Taxing the rich" question (which btw, is actually about taxing those with incomes of $250k per year), and not even bother mentioning that the majority are against the very health care proposal they want to tax the rich to pay for.

I can understand the focus being on how to pay for a health care plan, but how can you leave out that most disapprove of the plan itself? That's why I smell a political agenda at work here.

.
 
Grim17 said:
I just don't understand how someone could write a story based on a poll, focus in on the "Taxing the rich" question (which btw, is actually about taxing those with incomes of $250k per year), and not even bother mentioning that the majority are against the very health care proposal they want to tax the rich to pay for.

I can understand the focus being on how to pay for a health care plan, but how can you leave out that most disapprove of the plan itself? That's why I smell a political agenda at work here.

.
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I don't know why americans continue to fund this corrupt government, besides the fact that they have a gun to our heads. We out number these people, yet we continue to watch as they ram through one failed program after another....like reagan once said..."shouldn't they read the scorecard to us every once in awile"

first they came for those who made over 250 thousand....
 
Phoenix said:
Link Here

Seems this poll finds that a majority no longer believe in equality. Or don't care as long as they get their way.
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Are you kidding? What is more equal, everyone paying the same amount, everyone paying the same percentage, or everyone paying on basis of the marginal utility?
 
Life isn't fair. When everyone realizes this and starts working hard for ****, they'll find they get much more. But with the Welfare Pop-stars out there making ends overlap I doubt that will come anytime soon.


Does anyone else think it's a fabulous idea to drug test people on welfare and deny them a check if they test positive?
 
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Whip Comes Down said:
Most Americans are in favor of health care reform, bro.
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I'll say it again... Most are for health care reform, but not the reform proposed by Obama and the democrats in the House. When you tell Americans what the bill entails, the numbers go strongly against it.

Just look at the very poll that started this thread... Geez

.
 
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Also, let me add this from that poll you posted:

As has been the case for months, Democrats favor the plan while Republicans and voters not affiliated with either major party are opposed. The latest numbers show support from 79% of those in the president’s party. The plan is opposed by 78% of Republicans and 61% of unaffiliated voters.​
 
What was that we heard yesterday, that the tax credits that were given out this year, a lot of Americans will be taxed for those if they have more than one job. :doh Yeah... the rich have it so bad, while the lower middle class gets screwed.
 
EpicDude86 said:
Life isn't fair. When everyone realizes this and starts working hard for ****, they'll find they get much more. But with the Welfare Pop-stars out there making ends overlap I doubt that will come anytime soon.


Does anyone else think it's a fabulous idea to drug test people on welfare and deny them a check if they test positive?
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You sound like you're blaming the government for your failure to achieve financial success.
 
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