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Thread: Exclusive: Jobs 'Saved or Created' in Congressional Districts That Don't Exist

  1. #291
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    Re: Exclusive: Jobs 'Saved or Created' in Congressional Districts That Don't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    GDP does not accurately measure wealth because construction of war-time goods does not make our lives better, in fact you could say that they have negative wealth associated with them because they cause destruction. Also, government routinely overspends and creates things that are worthless (the best example of this are The Pyramids; they did not make the citizens of Egypt any better off).



    The pyramids are one of the worlds top tourist attractions,have been for quite some time. I guess you could say that they have made the people in Egyptians tourist industry a whole lot better off.

    I haven't checked but I would imagine that the tourist industry has to be among the top money engines in Egypt.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: Exclusive: Jobs 'Saved or Created' in Congressional Districts That Don't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Has nothing to do with efficiency Phattonez. There are three aspects you can draw from, the product, income, or expenditure approach; all of which lead to the same number.

    And by PPR, i believe you mean purchasing power parity.
    By PPR I mean private product remaining. GDP is the wealth under the best circumstances and PPR is the wealth under the worst circumstances. Real wealth is somewhere in between.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  3. #293
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    Re: Exclusive: Jobs 'Saved or Created' in Congressional Districts That Don't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    By PPR I mean private product remaining. GDP is the wealth under the best circumstances and PPR is the wealth under the worst circumstances. Real wealth is somewhere in between.
    Do yourself a favor and disregard Rothbard.... His anarcho capitalist romance is not in tuned with reality.

    PPR is not considered substantial. Reason be, GDP does not measure wealth only output relative to a time series.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Exclusive: Jobs 'Saved or Created' in Congressional Districts That Don't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Well, that doesn't seem right to me....Doesn't the manufacture of war time supplies employ people? Don't they get paid? Then in turn don't they buy things with that money? Do not the raw materials have to be produced, transported, and made into a finished product, providing skills to grow the country after any war?
    No. War products don't produce any wealth. Take the example to the extreme. Let's say that everyone in a certain country is employed producing war products. They get paid a certain amount. Then with that money, people want food and consumer goods. Surprise! These don't exist. So yes, people are employed and making money, but so what? They're not producing wealth. If government decided to pay everyone a base amount, but then every year they raise the salaries 2%. GDP would be growing in this situation, but the real wealth of the people would actually be decreasing (if there were population growth).

    And how about the young men, and women sent off to war? I know the popular thing today is to only focus on the unfortunate souls that come back less than whole, either in mind, or in physical shape, but I am talking of the lion share that come back unharmed. They come back with skills, either in the ability to do what is necessary to work, or manage. They come back to be your police, firefighters, pilots, and pastors. They drive a nation forward with their ability to discern right from wrong instantly, and their no fail attitude.

    And I think that makes the quality of life in America better for all who live here.
    Are the skills worth the price that we pay on the military? Probably not. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that we should abandon the military. It's an important part of the protection of the country. That said, we have to realize that a military eats up wealth, it does not create it.

    Sure they did, if for nothing else a sense of pride. And a wonder of the world. You think the world would be better if the pyramids were non existent?
    For the people of Egypt who built those pyramids, it was a tremendous waste of resources. Imagine the food and fresh water that was passed over because the resources were used to build those pyramids.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Exclusive: Jobs 'Saved or Created' in Congressional Districts That Don't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Do yourself a favor and disregard Rothbard.... His anarcho capitalist romance is not in tuned with reality.

    PPR is not considered substantial. Reason be, GDP does not measure wealth only output relative to a time series.
    PPR is too pessimistic because it assumes that government cannot produce any wealth. GDP is too optimistic because it assumes that government spending is as private sector is spending. That's why I'm saying that the real number that we're interested in is somewhere in between.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Exclusive: Jobs 'Saved or Created' in Congressional Districts That Don't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    PPR is too pessimistic because it assumes that government cannot produce any wealth. GDP is too optimistic because it assumes that government spending is as private sector is spending. That's why I'm saying that the real number that we're interested in is somewhere in between.
    Governemt spending accounts for less than 22% of the economy. PPR is a misleading term, but to each their own i guess.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Exclusive: Jobs 'Saved or Created' in Congressional Districts That Don't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Governemt spending accounts for less than 22% of the economy. PPR is a misleading term, but to each their own i guess.
    22% is pretty substantial though. Imagine if you took away 22% of the wealth of Ethiopia. How much of their population would be wiped out?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Exclusive: Jobs 'Saved or Created' in Congressional Districts That Don't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    22% is pretty substantial though. Imagine if you took away 22% of the wealth of Ethiopia. How much of their population would be wiped out?
    But government gets that 22% via taxation and the semi complicated situation regarding net exports. (Due to negative net exports, the Fed is able to borrow what they do not tax).
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Exclusive: Jobs 'Saved or Created' in Congressional Districts That Don't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    But government gets that 22% via taxation and the semi complicated situation regarding net exports.
    Well sure, the government takes that money from the economy and spends it. Some of it is redistributed, some of it is wasted (IRS), some of it is used for things that are not that efficient (like subsidizing a national park). 22% from an institution that does not spend money wisely is kind of a big deal.

    (Due to negative net exports, the Fed is able to borrow what they do not tax).
    Could you expand on this?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Exclusive: Jobs 'Saved or Created' in Congressional Districts That Don't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Macro theory in regards to national income accounting says something quite different....
    A theory when has it worked

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