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Thread: Exclusive: Jobs 'Saved or Created' in Congressional Districts That Don't Exist

  1. #191
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    Re: Exclusive: Jobs 'Saved or Created' in Congressional Districts That Don't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    See above.

    These are not the right numbers to measure deficits.
    Yep intragovernmental debt, interest on debt, and off budget items don't count because you say they don't. Save the Washington doublespeak.

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    Re: Exclusive: Jobs 'Saved or Created' in Congressional Districts That Don't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    How do you know they are overestimated in the first place?
    Well for example 58,000 of these supposedly save jobs were from companies that have since proven not to have received a single single stimulus penny.

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    Re: Exclusive: Jobs 'Saved or Created' in Congressional Districts That Don't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    The national debt numbers don't lie, the intragovernmental holdings don't count because you say they don't? Give me a freaking break. Just because the government wants to play little accounting games by stashing away money doesn't mean that we still don't owe this money, and whats more we still pay interest on that debt. Sorry sport the national debt went up every single year Clinton was in office, saying "interest on the debt and off budget items don't count" is not a valid argument.
    Not because I say so. The Treasury site explains the difference very clearly. Educate yourself. You are woefully ignorant of this stuff and it shows.

    I am not saying interest on the debt and off-budget items don't count. They do. Clinton's surplus in FY00 included those. It was a surplus. More money came in than was spent. That is an undisputed fact.

    Intragovernmental holdings means money one part of the government owes to another part. It's like owing money from your savings account to your checking account. That's not really debt. Your figures include that. When you use only real debt - "debt held by the public" - then you see it went down. Debt held by the public is money the government borrows from the outside.

    I repeat - the numbers show that in FY2000, the government took in more money than it spent, including interest payments and off-budget accounts like Social Security. Period.

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    Re: Exclusive: Jobs 'Saved or Created' in Congressional Districts That Don't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Well for example 58,000 of these supposedly save jobs were from companies that have since proven not to have received a single single stimulus penny.
    But they could have been saved from the multiplier effect.

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    Re: Exclusive: Jobs 'Saved or Created' in Congressional Districts That Don't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Yep intragovernmental debt, interest on debt, and off budget items don't count because you say they don't. Save the Washington doublespeak.
    That's not what I'm saying at all. Read my response.

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    Re: Exclusive: Jobs 'Saved or Created' in Congressional Districts That Don't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Wrong.

    There was very clearly a surplus, a real one. The government took in more money than it paid out that year. Whether you include SS or not. Even when you included interest payments. Simple math.
    I know that, it was in the links,(all three of them, including the CBO) but evidently Agent Ferris is so blinded by partisan kool-Aid he cant see it.

    He could be using to the old standby winger defense, the tried and true winger defense, the one and only…”OBTUSE DEFENSE” that some wingers have been known to use when all else fails, clinging to it like it was a life raft.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: Exclusive: Jobs 'Saved or Created' in Congressional Districts That Don't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    I've explained this before.

    These figures include "intragovernmental holdings" which aren't part of the deficit. They are money the government owes itself.

    The deficit numbers don't lie. They clearly show the government took in more than it spent in FY2000, even when you include SS.
    Wrong Clinton just took money from other places to make it appear there was a surplus.

    From post 82

    For example, in 2000, Clinton claimed a $230B surplus, but Clinton borrowed
    $152.3B from Social Security
    $30.9B from Civil Service Retirement Fund
    $18.5B from Federal Supplementary Medical insurance Trust Fund
    $15.0B from Federal Hospital Insurance Trust Fund
    $9.0B from the Federal Unemployment Trust Fund
    $8.2B from Military Retirement Fund
    $3.8B from Transportation Trust Funds
    $1.8B from Employee Life Insurance & Retirement fund
    $7.0B from others

    Total borrowed from off budget funds $246.5B, meaning that his $230B surplus is actually a $16.5B deficit.
    ($246.5B borrowed - $230B claimed surplus = $16.5B actual deficit).

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    Re: Exclusive: Jobs 'Saved or Created' in Congressional Districts That Don't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Wrong Clinton just took money from other places to make it appear there was a surplus.

    From post 82

    For example, in 2000, Clinton claimed a $230B surplus, but Clinton borrowed
    $152.3B from Social Security
    $30.9B from Civil Service Retirement Fund
    $18.5B from Federal Supplementary Medical insurance Trust Fund
    $15.0B from Federal Hospital Insurance Trust Fund
    $9.0B from the Federal Unemployment Trust Fund
    $8.2B from Military Retirement Fund
    $3.8B from Transportation Trust Funds
    $1.8B from Employee Life Insurance & Retirement fund
    $7.0B from others

    Total borrowed from off budget funds $246.5B, meaning that his $230B surplus is actually a $16.5B deficit.
    ($246.5B borrowed - $230B claimed surplus = $16.5B actual deficit).

    Wrong.

    In FY2000, the total money the government took in exceeded the amount spent, including all trust funds, etc. Period.

    The $246.5B "borrowed" was borrowed from the government, going to the government. So it nets to zero.

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    Re: Exclusive: Jobs 'Saved or Created' in Congressional Districts That Don't Exist

    It's really very simple. The amount the government recieved from the outside world (taxes, etc) was more than the amount it spent in FY2000. That includes all off-budget stuff, trust funds, interest payments, etc. All of it. That is a surplus, not a deficit. Period.

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    Re: Exclusive: Jobs 'Saved or Created' in Congressional Districts That Don't Exist

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Not because I say so. The Treasury site explains the difference very clearly. Educate yourself. You are woefully ignorant of this stuff and it shows.
    Yep it doesn't count because they say so.

    I am not saying interest on the debt and off-budget items don't count. They do. Clinton's surplus in FY00 included those. It was a surplus. More money came in than was spent. That is an undisputed fact.
    No Clinton's surplus did not include off budget and interest on debt nor did it include intragovernmental debt, and when those things are added the debt increased not decreased, the Clinton surplus is a myth.

    Intragovernmental holdings means money one part of the government owes to another part.

    It's like owing money from your savings account to your checking account. That's not really debt. Your figures include that. When you use only real debt - "debt held by the public" - then you see it went down. Debt held by the public is money the government borrows from the outside.
    Um no tax payers payed into Social Security and Social Security loaned money to the Federal Government, and Social Security owes tax payers money and won't be able to pay that money if the Federal Government writes off the Intragovernmental Holdings. To suggest that Intragovernmental Holdings aren't real debt is patently false especially considering that we still have to pay interest on said debt.

    I repeat - the numbers show that in FY2000, the government took in more money than it spent, including interest payments and off-budget accounts like Social Security. Period.
    Only in Washington could the national debt going up every single year be called a surplus.

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