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Thread: Military Spending Weighs on Obama's Afghan Decision

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    Re: Military Spending Weighs on Obama's Afghan Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So let me see if I have this straight....Billions in bail out funds for those who demo's are now painting as 'greedy', and unworthy.
    We would have been fools not to have done those bailouts, bro.

    More than a Trillion for a stimulus package that was really little more than a boon of pork, and a thousand pages.
    It wasn't a trillion and half of it was tax cuts.

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    Re: Military Spending Weighs on Obama's Afghan Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by Whip Comes Down View Post
    Why in the hell do we need eleven aircraftcarriers, when no other nation has more than three?

    I don't want a military big enough for evil men like George Bush to abuse.
    Aircraft carriers are excellent tools for power projection.Mobile airfields that have 100 aircraft each....Not a weapon you would want to do without.
    "The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without."

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    Re: Military Spending Weighs on Obama's Afghan Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by Whip Comes Down View Post
    We would have been fools not to have done those bailouts, bro.

    It wasn't a trillion and half of it was tax cuts.
    I bet you cash money that it wasnt half.
    "The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without."

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    Re: Military Spending Weighs on Obama's Afghan Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by Strucky View Post
    There would be a sizable anti-government movement even if the Afghan Government was a well oiled machine....That has always been the case in Afghanistan.
    So not even trying is your answer? Did you learn anything from Vietnam?
    Good government likely would have won Vietnam.

    Most of your links discuss relatively low level civil servant and soldiers in corruption. Karzai's government is corrupt from the top down. When the President is seen as corrupt, ineffective and incompetent that is nowhere near the same as the front line and middle servants of the government being corrupt, but the top of the government relatively clean.

    Those tactics required a large amount of troops to implement.
    Not really. Much of the change in strategy went through before soldiers got there. Furthermore, we didn't need more troops when we turned the Sunnis to our side.

    If more troops equated to winning, Indochina would still be under French rule.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Military Spending Weighs on Obama's Afghan Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    So not even trying is your answer?
    Not trying what?


    Did you learn anything from Vietnam?
    Good government likely would have won Vietnam.
    We had the Vietcong defeated....We won every battle and ravaged their army,it was American public opinion and weak politicians that lost the war.



    Most of your links discuss relatively low level civil servant and soldiers in corruption. Karzai's government is corrupt from the top down. When the President is seen as corrupt, ineffective and incompetent that is nowhere near the same as the front line and middle servants of the government being corrupt, but the top of the government relatively clean.
    I call bs.....If you look through the links you would see that it is from top to bottom.


    Much of the change in strategy went through before soldiers got there.
    And the best results did'nt happen until AFTER reinforcements arrived.


    Furthermore, we didn't need more troops when we turned the Sunnis to our side.
    The hell we did'nt.


    If more troops equated to winning, Indochina would still be under French rule.
    No,Indochina would still be under French rule had they not had such poor leadership.
    "The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without."

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    Re: Military Spending Weighs on Obama's Afghan Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by Strucky View Post
    Not trying what?
    Address the political issue?

    We had the Vietcong defeated.
    O'rly? Care to support this argument?

    We won every battle and ravaged their army,it was American public opinion and weak politicians that lost the war.
    You do realize that the Vietcong learned their lesson in avoiding conventional battles no?

    Counting won battles and ignoring everything else they did doesn't mean we were winning.

    I call bs.....If you look through the links you would see that it is from top to bottom.
    One wonders if you even read your articles. Illiteracy seems to be spreading here like wildfire. Perhaps you should review your articles. I saw a great many complaints about those who actually interacted with the people and check points. Not exactly the President. Compare that with Karzai. Who's VPs are corrupt warlords.

    And the best results did'nt happen until AFTER reinforcements arrived.
    Confusing correlation with causation eh? Every single COIN expert has stated that COIN operations take time to work.

    The hell we did'nt.
    Perhaps you should review awakening councils who put down many of the insurgents. By the way, it's didn't not did'nt. Normally I don't mention spelling errors, but you did it twice.

    No,Indochina would still be under French rule had they not had such poor leadership.
    And you miss the point once again.

    Illiteracy seems to be spreading here like wildfire.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Military Spending Weighs on Obama's Afghan Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post

    You do realize that the Vietcong learned their lesson in avoiding conventional battles no?
    And, by 1968, the Viet Cong were worn down to the point where they were totally combat ineffective.

    Viet Cong operations aren't a good example of successful un-conventional warfare.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Military Spending Weighs on Obama's Afghan Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Where is it written that that is a hard and fast rule?
    In the unwritten moral code. Most of use prefer not to kill the innocent along with those we are fighting. We have the technology to be as precise on our attacks as we need. There is no reason to bomb entire towns when all we need to do is take out a single house.


    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I support attacking any country that allows these men sanctuary and gives them financial support.
    The country doesn't support these men though. The terrorist group that has take control of the country, and isn't supported by the populace does.

    The Afghan's are unmotivated and anyone given the slightest bit of power either become corrupt or are killed and replaced with someone willing to be corrupt. That doesn't' give us the right to decide the populace should be exterminated from this world.
    Last edited by Gibberish; 11-16-09 at 02:59 PM.
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    Re: Military Spending Weighs on Obama's Afghan Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    IMO, the U.S. should be careful to ensure that it makes sufficient investments in the military so as to meet the requirements that arise from its critical overseas interests. Needless to say, the hint of competition for funding between military needs and health care-related objectives is something that will become far more pronounced in the years ahead if the nation does not embark on a credible and sustained fiscal consolidation effort following the recession. A credible fiscal consolidation program would address the imbalances associated with the nation's mandatory spending programs.

    At the same time, the growing cost differentials between the U.S. military and its foes is worrisome. In the long-run, financial considerations could give U.S. enemies an asymmetric advantage e.g., they would merely have to endure until the U.S. consumes its resources to the extent that the military efforts become politically unsustainable. Narrowing what is a growing cost-disadvantage is something that will need to be examined in a thoughtful and deliberate manner.
    Don, you are good as usual. However, we need to also consider the earmarks that infest our defense budget, and the wishy-washy politics over doctrine that plays state (i.e., DoD contractors) interests over needs. Bringing home the bacon is a primary consideration of Congress. Many times this differs from what the Pentagon asks for. Also, the Air Force is saddled with space-based responsibilities that likely exaggerate the size of the budget that could be directly linked to the war or normal warfighting capabilities.
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    Re: Military Spending Weighs on Obama's Afghan Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by Strucky View Post
    Aircraft carriers are excellent tools for power projection.Mobile airfields that have 100 aircraft each....Not a weapon you would want to do without.
    Three or four is enough, bro. That way evil Presidents like George Bush won't be so inclined to lie us into bogus wars.

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