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New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

Including the cost of innocent civilian's blood through the Middle East wars to insure our spigots cannot be turned off or sabotaged.

You never did give me your blood for oil formula. How many innocent civilians do you think our oil under their sand is worth?

Well blood itself doesn't make nearly the amount of products petroleum does, but I guess if it's still inside someone they're worth a bit more...
 
Including the cost of innocent civilian's blood through the Middle East wars to insure our spigots cannot be turned off or sabotaged.

You never did give me your blood for oil formula. How many innocent civilians do you think our oil under their sand is worth?

Think of the carnage that would be caused if someone did turn the spiggots off and used oil to hold the world hostage.
 
Including the cost of innocent civilian's blood through the Middle East wars to insure our spigots cannot be turned off or sabotaged.

You never did give me your blood for oil formula. How many innocent civilians do you think our oil under their sand is worth?




You are typing on a computer made of plastic, oil

You get goods delivered by oil...


Your fake supierority is about as shallow as it can be.... :shrug:
 
Funny how you are so quick to point your crooked finger at the U. S. while never saying a word about the many, many innocent lives blown up in markets, restaurants, hotels, clubs, and anywhere they can inflict their crimes on innocent civillians -

I've already stated several times that I do not condone the killing o innocent civilians by either side. The sad fact is that we have killed many time over the number of innocent civilians killed by the terrorists.

and then they hide behind innocent civillians so people like you can point your crooked finger when we hit any civillians while trying to get them for their dirty deeds

We have the most powerful military on the planet. They have one of the weakest. If our situations were reversed, how would you defend your people's land from a far superior invasion force?

We are no more moral than they are, we just have better weapons. That is all.
 
You are typing on a computer made of plastic, oil

You get goods delivered by oil...


Your fake supierority is about as shallow as it can be....

My carbon footprint is less than half of the average US citizen. If everyone used at little energy as I did, we would have no need of Middle East oil. :shrug"
 
Think of the carnage that would be caused if someone did turn the spiggots off and used oil to hold the world hostage.


One of the few that is honest enough to admit it was about the oil.
 
My carbon footprint is less than half of the average US citizen. If everyone used at little energy as I did, we would have no need of Middle East oil. :shrug"

And if frogs had wings they wouldn't bump their asses as they jumped from lily pad to lily pad. Kudos to you for reducing your negative impact on the planet. Lots of people do that too, but with our current equipment and industry, we aren't going to be independent of Oil, until we can harness, effectively, other forms of energy. And we can't do that without slowly weening ourselves off oil, as opposed to quitting cold turkey.
 
One of the few that is honest enough to admit it was about the oil.

I'm starting to think you fancy yourself a troll or you have a serious issue with misreading posts from people you don't necessarily agree with.
 
My carbon footprint is less than half of the average US citizen. If everyone used at little energy as I did, we would have no need of Middle East oil. :shrug"



Oh so you are only a "little" dependent on terrorist oil. :lol:
 
We have the most powerful military on the planet. They have one of the weakest. If our situations were reversed, how would you defend your people's land from a far superior invasion force?

We are no more moral than they are, we just have better weapons. That is all.

All depends if your judge the terrorists to have the support of the general public.I cant imagine they like being randomly blown up on purpose.
 
My carbon footprint is less than half of the average US citizen. If everyone used at little energy as I did, we would have no need of Middle East oil. :shrug"

So you use no products made of plastic or that were produced, packaged, marketed, and delivered in manners that utilized energy derived from petroleum or other carbon based fuels? You don't work for an industry that utilizes all these things? You don't shop for products you need in places that utilize all these things? You don't benefit from taxis, busses, trains, planes, and automobiles like all the rest of us? That you conserve energy and/or use more biodegradable products, etc. is commendable and gives you a gold star in righteousness for conservation.

But don't presume that your carbon footprint is less than half of the U.S. citizen. You would have to move to a remote area and forego all modern pleasures, conveniences, and comforts to accomplish that, and for many of us, that price would be too high. As well as unnecessary.
 
The numbers I quoted were from Iraq Body Count that you thought were from Lancet.


IBC is a flawed propaganda site that uses the Lancet numbers in their model.


We were there to protect our oil spigots, and we succeeded.


So you agree that there was a National interest to it, regardless of how you disdain it. BTW, we wouldn't have to protect anything if liberals would get out of the way in drilling our own resource now would we?


Right because we bombed them back a century, which is how long it would be before they could threaten our spigots in Kuwait again. Not to mention the 100,000 innocent civilians we killed.


Your numbers are flawed as I mentioned above, to continue to use them is showing that you have little to offer other than Soros inspired talking point garbage.


We were his ally when he was at his murderous worst. But that was before he kicked the US oil companies out of Iraq.


Things change. The world is not a static place.

I am a humanist, I oppose terrorist actions no matter the flag. I don't believe that the ends justify the means like the Islamic and Christian extremists believe.


Then why is your rhetoric steeped in only how bad, and unfair America is? I don't think I've yet seen where you openly condemn Islamic terrorism perpetrated on Americans, only a defense of why they did, or do what they do.


That's right from Hermann Goering's playbook ~ "the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."


Nazi reference shows you have lost the argument......FAIL!


j-mac
 
Including the cost of innocent civilian's blood through the Middle East wars to insure our spigots cannot be turned off or sabotaged.

You never did give me your blood for oil formula. How many innocent civilians do you think our oil under their sand is worth?

You wrote, "We have the most powerful military on the planet. They have one of the weakest. If our situations were reversed, how would you defend your people's land from a far superior invasion force?"

I say, we certainly would not intentionally blow up innocent civillians in markets, but we would kick their ass just the same.

And what do you mean by invasion force?

America did not invade Iraq or Afghanistan - America and its allies liberated 50 million people in Iraq and Afghanistan - everybody knows this - I guess you didn't get the memo on this one.

Where are you getting your information, by the way? It's wrong - you are being misinformed.

Anyway.

You wrote, "We are no more moral than they are, we just have better weapons. That is all."

I say, they are very, very lucky that we are not like them, that we do have morals, because if we didn't, they would have been wiped off the face of the planet long ago - and the sad part is they know it, and they play off of it by crying like babies to the press every time we hit a civillian when they hide behind them.

The world knows their cowardly game - and no matter what you say, we are going to win. Nobody declares war on us, hits us, then tries to walk away crying about this and that because they are losing - I know payback's a bitch but................................... I say, if you can't take it, don't give it in the first place.
 
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Think of the carnage that would be caused if someone did turn the spiggots off and used oil to hold the world hostage.

It is exactly why Iraq cannot fall to Iran's proxies.
 
So you use no products made of plastic or that were produced, packaged, marketed, and delivered in manners that utilized energy derived from petroleum or other carbon based fuels? You don't work for an industry that utilizes all these things? You don't shop for products you need in places that utilize all these things? You don't benefit from taxis, busses, trains, planes, and automobiles like all the rest of us? That you conserve energy and/or use more biodegradable products, etc. is commendable and gives you a gold star in righteousness for conservation.

If you can find where I ever said we should have a zero carbon footprint, then what you said might have some relevance but since I've never said any such thing, well......................


But don't presume that your carbon footprint is less than half of the U.S. citizen. You would have to move to a remote area and forego all modern pleasures, conveniences, and comforts to accomplish that, and for many of us, that price would be too high. As well as unnecessary.


In the major areas of a person's carbon output, heating and cooling and transportation, my output is less than half the average citizen. Of course that is nothing we all couldn't do with a little thought and planning.

But hey, fighting wars to control the oil regions is another option.
 
IBC is a flawed propaganda site that uses the Lancet numbers in their model.

You are mistaken, their numbers come from interviewing family members.

So you agree that there was a National interest to it, regardless of how you disdain it.

I do not consider Middle East oil our National Interest, and I certainly would never consider sacrificing lives for oil to be a good trade.

BTW, we wouldn't have to protect anything if liberals would get out of the way in drilling our own resource now would we?

If the "libs" were the problem I'm guessing the "cons" in charge of Congress for 12 years would have drilled, baby drilled, while they were in charge. We haven't been able to meet our gluttony for oil with our own resources since the 70's.

Its time to get off our asses and finally take advantage of what we already know about sustainable energy.


Your numbers are flawed as I mentioned above, to continue to use them is showing that you have little to offer other than Soros inspired talking point garbage.

You've shown your opinion that is all.

Things change. The world is not a static place.

Right, first Saddam threatens our Middle East oil supplies in Kuwait and Iraq, and we invade and occupy the region. That is a change, no doubt about it!

Then why is your rhetoric steeped in only how bad, and unfair America is? I don't think I've yet seen where you openly condemn Islamic terrorism perpetrated on Americans, only a defense of why they did, or do what they do.

That's an easy one to clear up. I abhor the killing of innocent civilians no matter which side does it.
 
And what do you mean by invasion force?

America did not invade Iraq or Afghanistan - America and its allies liberated 50 million people in Iraq and Afghanistan.


And the fairy princess granted them three wishes............... LOL!


Anyway.

You wrote, "We are no more moral than they are, we just have better weapons. That is all."

The world knows their cowardly game - and no matter what you say, we are going to win. Nobody declares war on us, hits us, then tries to walk away crying about this and that because they are losing - I know payback's a bitch but................................... I say, if you can't take it, don't give it in the first place.

Yeah I've seen the cowboy approach. They kill 3,000 civilians and we kill 100,000 civilians, we'll show them huh? And that allows them to recruit more terrorists than they had before our 8 years of "war on terror!"

Good plan!;)
 
Yeah I've seen the cowboy approach. They kill 3,000 civilians and we kill 100,000 civilians, we'll show them huh? And that allows them to recruit more terrorists than they had before our 8 years of "war on terror!"

Good plan!;)

LOL - they are STILL blowing up innocent civillians in markets as I type, and intenionally, might I add.

Adding to their recruits? They keep their people in crappy existance and then blame it on the west - and they don't know any better so.......... the idiots blow themselves up so their family can have a few dollars.

THINK - THINK just for a moment - if they were doing so well in the first place, a few dollars wouldn't be such a great gift, certainly not worth blowing yourself up about, while also taking out innocent, unsuspecting, people in the process - and this is happening from countries that are OIL RICH to the balls. LOL - in order for some of that oil money to trickle down to them they have to blow themselves up - what a racket - what idiots they are to fall for it - and for you to fall for it............... LOL - sorry, we aren't that stupid to fall for it, but it's on you.
 

In the major areas of a person's carbon output, heating and cooling and transportation, my output is less than half the average citizen. Of course that is nothing we all couldn't do with a little thought and planning.

But hey, fighting wars to control the oil regions is another option.

Fighting wars to prevent crazies and madmen from controlling most of the world oil supply and reserves is something that from time to time may be necessary in a world that abhors allowing crazies and madmen to prey and/or control the freedom loving, hard working, and industrious.

As for your conservation efforts, those are commendable. In my household the use of energy, private transportation, and non biodegradable products is also less than half the average citizen but this is for aesthetic and practical reasons and has absolutely nothing to do with 'saving the planet' or 'being a good citizen of the world' or whatever. I have no illusions that I am significantly reducing my carbon footprint given what a small part of my participation in society that energy use and transportation is.

And as I think the honest science is overwhelming, if not conclusive, that reducing our carbon footprint is futile in affecting climate change, I see no valid reason to take away choices, options, opportunities, and freedoms from anybody on the theory that it will make a difference re global warming. And I especially see no reason to doom whole groups of people to more generations of crushing poverty should we deny them ability to exploit their natural resources as we have already done.

We do not want to unnecessarily allow poisons and toxins to pollute our soil, air, and water and I vigorously support reasonable laws and regulation to prevent that as much as possible. I support reasonable laws and regulations that preserve the aesthetic beauty of our planet and preserve the wonderful creatures living on it. And practicing reasonable conservation and thrift is commendable for almost all reasons.

Most of all I support common sense in all things whether it is in trying and convicting a terrorist intent on hurting or destroying us or in dealing with inevitable issues of climate change and other natural phenomenon. If you take political correctness, partisanship, and ignorance out of it, we generally make pretty good decisions about most things.

Let's don't harm our economy and freedoms by allowing opportunists to spike our kool-ade with junk science or by allowing opportunists to corrupt the judicial system by giving enemy combatants all the civil rights provided to U.S. citizens.
 
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LOL - they are STILL blowing up innocent civillians in markets as I type, and intenionally, might I add.

Adding to their recruits? They keep their people in crappy existance and then blame it on the west - and they don't know any better so.......... the idiots blow themselves up so their family can have a few dollars.

THINK - THINK just for a moment - if they were doing so well in the first place, a few dollars wouldn't be such a great gift, certainly not worth blowing yourself up about, while also taking out innocent, unsuspecting, people in the process - and this is happening from countries that are OIL RICH to the balls. LOL - in order for some of that oil money to trickle down to them they have to blow themselves up - what a racket - what idiots they are to fall for it.

Our 8 years of war on terror has only increased terrorism world wide. Surprisingly, killing innocent civilians and invading countries that never attacked only increases the enemies numbers.

Who would have thought it? LOL!
 
Fighting wars to prevent crazies and madmen from controlling most of the world oil supply and reserves is something that from time to time may be necessary in a world that abhors allowing crazies and madmen to prey and/or control the freedom loving, hard working, and industrious.

What right do we have to kill over others oil? Especially when we do not need it. All we have to do is get off our asses and utilize what we already know about solar and wind power. I don't know which is the biggest impediment to our survival, our ignorance or our gluttony without regard to sustainability.

As for your conservation efforts, those are commendable. In my household the use of energy, private transportation, and non biodegradable products is also less than half the average citizen but this is for aesthetic and practical reasons and has absolutely nothing to do with 'saving the planet' or 'being a good citizen of the world' or whatever.

I never said anything about saving the planet. As Carlin said, the planet will be fine, its the people that are ****ed!

I have no illusions that I am significantly reducing my carbon footprint given what a small part of my participation in society that energy use and transportation is.

If all of us reduce our energy needs and increase development of renewable sources than we make Mideast wars unnecessary.


And as I think the honest science is overwhelming, if not conclusive, that reducing our carbon footprint is futile in affecting climate change, I see no valid reason to take away choices, options, opportunities, and freedoms from anybody on the theory that it will make a difference re global warming. And I especially see no reason to doom whole groups of people to more generations of crushing poverty should we deny them ability to exploit their natural resources as we have already done.

The current plan on the table by CBO estimates will cost consumers 44 cents a day. I am prepared to risk that on the chance that the concurrence of scientists from 180 countries are right.


How small and shallow would I feel if was too cheap to spring for 44 cents a day and doomed the chances for future life on the planet?
:shock:

We do not want to unnecessarily allow poisons and toxins to pollute our soil, air, and water and I vigorously support reasonable laws and regulation to prevent that as much as possible. I support reasonable laws and regulations that preserve the aesthetic beauty of our planet and preserve the wonderful creatures living on it. And practicing reasonable conservation and thrift is commendable for almost all reasons.

Most of all I support common sense in all things whether it is in trying and convicting a terrorist intent on hurting or destroying us or in dealing with inevitable issues of climate change and other natural phenomenon. If you take political correctness, partisanship, and ignorance out of it, we generally make pretty good decisions about most things.

That remains to be seen.

Let's don't harm our economy and freedoms by allowing opportunists to spike our kool-ade with junk science or by allowing opportunists to corrupt the judicial system by giving enemy combatants all the civil rights provided to U.S. citizens.

If the scientists are wrong, our air is little cleaner and we are more self reliant when it comes to energy.

If you are wrong and we do nothing, you doom our planet to a questionable future.

I try to avoid bad bets! I will err on the side of continued life on the planet, thank you very much. :cool:
 
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Our 8 years of war on terror has only increased terrorism world wide. Surprisingly, killing innocent civilians and invading countries that never attacked only increases the enemies numbers.

Who would have thought it? LOL!

The "enemy" have made themselves the "enemy" when they declared war on the U.S. and attacked the U. S. - what part of this do you not get?

Our going over there went directly at them and then flushed them to us there - like suckers they came and we are finishing them off over there - it sure beats doing nothing, like Clinton did - funny, even though he did nothing after their attacks (first bombing of World Trade Centers, USS Cole, a few of our embassies and whathaveyou), they still attacked us on 9/11 - it obviously does not pay to not do anything - so we are doing all we can to make sure it doesn't happen again - sorry if you don't agree with this - but it is what it is - trust what it is is right - and trust that the job of clobbering those who have declared war against us will get done - whine all you want in the process, but it will change not one thing.
 

If the scientists are wrong, our air is little cleaner and we are more self reliant when it comes to energy.

If you are wrong and we do nothing, you doom our planet to a questionable future.

I try to avoid bad bets! I will err on the side of continued life on the planet, thank you very much. :cool:

Except we're all broke and can't afford food and the economy is in shambles, so we'll be broke for a long time to come.

What will have been accomplished, exactly?
 
The "enemy" have made themselves the "enemy" when they declared war on the U.S. and attacked the U. S. - what part of this do you not get?

The part where we killed 100,000 civilians in Iraq that preceded and helped bring on the 9/11 attack.

Our going over there went directly at them and then flushed them to us there - like suckers they came and we are finishing them off over there - it sure beats doing nothing, like Clinton did - funny, even though he did nothing after their attacks (first bombing of World Trade Centers, USS Cole, a few of our embassies and whathaveyou), they still attacked us on 9/11 - it obviously does not pay to not do anything - so we are doing all we can to make sure it doesn't happen again.

But that is the thing, we are not. According to the Rand Report to the Pentagon, the war on terror has been a failure. As I mentioned before, killing innocent civilians does nothing for decreasing the recruitment effort of the enemy.
 
Except we're all broke and can't afford food and the economy is in shambles, so we'll be broke for a long time to come.

What will have been accomplished, exactly?

I happen to think that if you add the real cost of the Middle East wars to continuing our dependence on oil, we are shipping an unnecessary amount of money for energy that we can produce ourselves with greater economy, not to mention the greater ethics of not sacrificing blood for oil.

Even if if that were not the case, nothing is a higher priority than our environment, for without one that supports life, all the money in the world will be of no consequence.
 
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