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Thread: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

  1. #31
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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Yes, but where are the lines drawn? There are some issues that the Supreme Court has stated are purely political-question issues and to be considered by the legislative branch, only. So are there similar things that apply to this current case (civilian court ruling on a case when the guilty party was first in custody of the military)?

    I don't understand how this is going to cross over fluidly.

    Obviously I don't know how things in this way would work . . . I'm going to have to learn more before I understand what this truly means.
    they are being tried in federal court, properly. i just don't see the problem. McVeigh was tried in federal court, wasn't he?

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    They all want to be martyrs, Obama provides that opportunity.
    Being forced to stand on trial and then sent to rot in jail will not make them a martyr. If US locked them up in Gitmo and tortured them then yes they can claim they are enduring pain for God so how did he provide this opportunity?


  3. #33
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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    Well Counselor, you're going to have to educate me.

    You ask whether I'm aware the US Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York doesn't have to turn over all of it's sources. A Federal District Court Judge will make this determination.
    No, it won't. The government will decide what sources it wants to rely on to make its charges.

    Since KSM will be on American soil does he not then acquire the right to confront his accusers? Sources will be compromised.

    Lawyers for criminal defendants use the right of discovery as leverage against the prosecution. The Govt. is forced to choose between compromising sources and intelligence, or holding back evidence incriminating the defendant.
    Again, this doesn't mean that he gets to "confront" every bit of evidence against him, but only what the prosecutors choose to offer. By making the decision to bring these trials in a regular court, it seems obvious that the Justice Department feels that it has enough non-classified evidence to win the trials without exposing any national security secrets.

    You also ask me if I am familiar with the fact that the Govt. wouldn't bring a civilian prosecution if it didn't have admissible evidence to convict. What is your factual basis for making this assertion. This happens all the time. Have you ever heard of Wen Ho Lee?
    I don't see how that's even remotely analogous, because we didn't have an alternative method of trying Wen Ho Lee, while we had another method available here (and are using it for five others).

    Finally, you ask me whether I am familiar with the fact that the Gitmo Five have already stated their desire to plead guilty, thus obviating the need for discovery. Here is where I can tell that you are a layman. The Gitmo Five asked the Military Tribunal in Gitmo if they could enter a guilty plea. They were not allowed to do so. Obama killed the Military Tribunals. Prosecution in Federal District Court is an entirely new proceeding. What was said in the Military Tribunals will not be admissible. Even if it was the Gitmo Five would claim they were coerced into making those incriminating statements, plead not guilty, and since the death penalty may be on the line, no court in America will deny them the right to full, comprehensive, and complete discovery.
    I didn't say that their desire to plead guilty would be admissible against them - I said it to highlight the fact that they recognize the strength of the evidence against them and are in all probability okay with being sentenced to prison as part of their desire to get out of Gitmo and become martyrs.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind - Times Online

    Interesting, they will be tried under a civilian court, I wonder if evidence obtained through questionable means will be dismissed
    He's guilty. It doesn't matter which evidence is admitted which is dismissed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Being forced to stand on trial and then sent to rot in jail will not make them a martyr. If US locked them up in Gitmo and tortured them then yes they can claim they are enduring pain for God so how did he provide this opportunity?
    Because they will suffer and no matter ho much hero worship they get from the rest of the Muslims, at least we'll get some statisfaction out of the deal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  6. #36
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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    How better way to insure putting the Government and interrogators on tril and getting his confession thrown out because it was obtained under duress.

    I would not be surprised to find that these moves for trail to NY were Obama's own idea.

    Obama has shown his racial prejudice in The arrest case of Henry Louis Gates Jr., the release and dropping of charges of the Convicted Black Panthers for intimidation at the polls last year, the firing of the IG who was investigating the crooked Black Mayor of Sacramento CA.

    he has shown his prejudice in favor of anything Muslim in his speeches while in the Middle east, his bowing to Royalty in Saudi Arabia, his order that the term terrorism be replaced with "human caused disasters', and his latest example id his refusal to refer to Islamic Terrorist Hasan as such in the face of overwhelming evidence.

    Mark my words Obama will in the future use the fact that this poor misunderstood picked on Major Hasan is paralyzed as an excuse to commute his death sentence when the time comes. Obama would have done it for DC sniper John Allen Muhammad if he had the power by fortunately obama can't commute sentences that come down in State Courts. Thank Allah for small favors.

    Obama is a Muslim and remember they are allowed to lie to us infidels but they have to come to the aid of their fellow Islamists. Look for more of it to come as he gets closer to his goals of Socialism/Marxism.

    What was it Obama said in a speech in the middle East earlier this year? Oh yes he opened by saying to the Muslim hordes: showmeyourassesIliketolickem.. Or something like that.
    Last edited by Councilman; 11-13-09 at 05:16 PM.

  7. #37
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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    How better way to insure putting the Government and interrogators on tril and getting his confession thrown out because it was obtained under duress.
    And I'm sure that there's absolutely no other evidence available other than his confession.

    he has shown his prejudice in favor of anything Muslim in his speeches while in the Middle east, his bowing to Royalty in Saudi Arabia, his order that the term terrorism be replaced with "human caused disasters'
    Link?

    Mark my words Obama will in the future use the fact that this poor misunderstood picked on Major Hasan is paralyzed as an excuse to commute his death sentence when the time comes.
    Want to bet on it?

    Obama would have done it for DC sniper John Allen Muhammad if he had the power by fortunately obama can't commute sentences that come down in State Courts.
    Link to anything suggesting he would have done it, had he been able to?

    Obama is a Muslim
    No he's not. This garbage is seriously getting old.

    What was it Obama said in a speech in the middle East earlier this year? Oh yes he opened by saying to the Muslim hordes: showmeyourassesIliketolickem.. Or something like that.
    Wow, ignorance and thinkly-veiled racism all rolled up into one unamusing joke. Nice work!
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    Well they commited a crime in the US so putting them on trial in the U.S seams the logical responce.
    They committed a war crime against the U.S. so placing them on trial by military commission seems like a far more logical response.

    Remove the system for determining whether someone is innocent or not and innocent people suffer.
    That's not the counterargument anyone is making, the counterargument is that they should be tried by military commission.

    As has been demonstrated by extraordionary rendition etc. This isnt about being sympathetic to terroists, its about ensuring the terroists are killed and innocent people arent. Would you prefer to live in a country where people were killed in the absence of evidence they were guilty?

    I can understand that a free trial is more then any of Al Qaedas victims ever got but giving them this only exposes their folly and hypocrisy.
    Once again nobody is proposing that they not be tried at all the proposal is that they should be tried by military commission. What I want to know is that why are 5 of the detainees to be tried by military commission and 5 of them (the most notorious of the 10 including KSM btw) to be tried in civilian court?

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    The terrorist suspects are not typical enemy combattants.
    No they're typical unlawful combatants and war criminals and thus should be tried by military commission.

    They'll be tried in civilian courts and people need to get over it. It's done. It's happening.
    And the reason why it is happening is because the boy king wants them to go scott free.

  10. #40
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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Want to bet on it?

    I do! When I win, you buy me dinner at the 21 Club.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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