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Thread: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    My carbon footprint is less than half of the average US citizen. If everyone used at little energy as I did, we would have no need of Middle East oil. :shrug"
    So you use no products made of plastic or that were produced, packaged, marketed, and delivered in manners that utilized energy derived from petroleum or other carbon based fuels? You don't work for an industry that utilizes all these things? You don't shop for products you need in places that utilize all these things? You don't benefit from taxis, busses, trains, planes, and automobiles like all the rest of us? That you conserve energy and/or use more biodegradable products, etc. is commendable and gives you a gold star in righteousness for conservation.

    But don't presume that your carbon footprint is less than half of the U.S. citizen. You would have to move to a remote area and forego all modern pleasures, conveniences, and comforts to accomplish that, and for many of us, that price would be too high. As well as unnecessary.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The numbers I quoted were from Iraq Body Count that you thought were from Lancet.

    IBC is a flawed propaganda site that uses the Lancet numbers in their model.


    We were there to protect our oil spigots, and we succeeded.

    So you agree that there was a National interest to it, regardless of how you disdain it. BTW, we wouldn't have to protect anything if liberals would get out of the way in drilling our own resource now would we?


    Right because we bombed them back a century, which is how long it would be before they could threaten our spigots in Kuwait again. Not to mention the 100,000 innocent civilians we killed.

    Your numbers are flawed as I mentioned above, to continue to use them is showing that you have little to offer other than Soros inspired talking point garbage.


    We were his ally when he was at his murderous worst. But that was before he kicked the US oil companies out of Iraq.

    Things change. The world is not a static place.

    I am a humanist, I oppose terrorist actions no matter the flag. I don't believe that the ends justify the means like the Islamic and Christian extremists believe.

    Then why is your rhetoric steeped in only how bad, and unfair America is? I don't think I've yet seen where you openly condemn Islamic terrorism perpetrated on Americans, only a defense of why they did, or do what they do.


    That's right from Hermann Goering's playbook ~ "the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."

    Nazi reference shows you have lost the argument......FAIL!


    j-mac
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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Including the cost of innocent civilian's blood through the Middle East wars to insure our spigots cannot be turned off or sabotaged.

    You never did give me your blood for oil formula. How many innocent civilians do you think our oil under their sand is worth?
    You wrote, "We have the most powerful military on the planet. They have one of the weakest. If our situations were reversed, how would you defend your people's land from a far superior invasion force?"

    I say, we certainly would not intentionally blow up innocent civillians in markets, but we would kick their ass just the same.

    And what do you mean by invasion force?

    America did not invade Iraq or Afghanistan - America and its allies liberated 50 million people in Iraq and Afghanistan - everybody knows this - I guess you didn't get the memo on this one.

    Where are you getting your information, by the way? It's wrong - you are being misinformed.

    Anyway.

    You wrote, "We are no more moral than they are, we just have better weapons. That is all."

    I say, they are very, very lucky that we are not like them, that we do have morals, because if we didn't, they would have been wiped off the face of the planet long ago - and the sad part is they know it, and they play off of it by crying like babies to the press every time we hit a civillian when they hide behind them.

    The world knows their cowardly game - and no matter what you say, we are going to win. Nobody declares war on us, hits us, then tries to walk away crying about this and that because they are losing - I know payback's a bitch but................................... I say, if you can't take it, don't give it in the first place.
    Last edited by Tom Jones; 11-28-09 at 10:47 PM.

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Think of the carnage that would be caused if someone did turn the spiggots off and used oil to hold the world hostage.
    It is exactly why Iraq cannot fall to Iran's proxies.

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    So you use no products made of plastic or that were produced, packaged, marketed, and delivered in manners that utilized energy derived from petroleum or other carbon based fuels? You don't work for an industry that utilizes all these things? You don't shop for products you need in places that utilize all these things? You don't benefit from taxis, busses, trains, planes, and automobiles like all the rest of us? That you conserve energy and/or use more biodegradable products, etc. is commendable and gives you a gold star in righteousness for conservation.

    If you can find where I ever said we should have a zero carbon footprint, then what you said might have some relevance but since I've never said any such thing, well......................


    But don't presume that your carbon footprint is less than half of the U.S. citizen. You would have to move to a remote area and forego all modern pleasures, conveniences, and comforts to accomplish that, and for many of us, that price would be too high. As well as unnecessary.

    In the major areas of a person's carbon output, heating and cooling and transportation, my output is less than half the average citizen. Of course that is nothing we all couldn't do with a little thought and planning.

    But hey, fighting wars to control the oil regions is another option.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    IBC is a flawed propaganda site that uses the Lancet numbers in their model.

    You are mistaken, their numbers come from interviewing family members.

    So you agree that there was a National interest to it, regardless of how you disdain it.

    I do not consider Middle East oil our National Interest, and I certainly would never consider sacrificing lives for oil to be a good trade.

    BTW, we wouldn't have to protect anything if liberals would get out of the way in drilling our own resource now would we?

    If the "libs" were the problem I'm guessing the "cons" in charge of Congress for 12 years would have drilled, baby drilled, while they were in charge. We haven't been able to meet our gluttony for oil with our own resources since the 70's.

    Its time to get off our asses and finally take advantage of what we already know about sustainable energy.


    Your numbers are flawed as I mentioned above, to continue to use them is showing that you have little to offer other than Soros inspired talking point garbage.

    You've shown your opinion that is all.

    Things change. The world is not a static place.

    Right, first Saddam threatens our Middle East oil supplies in Kuwait and Iraq, and we invade and occupy the region. That is a change, no doubt about it!

    Then why is your rhetoric steeped in only how bad, and unfair America is? I don't think I've yet seen where you openly condemn Islamic terrorism perpetrated on Americans, only a defense of why they did, or do what they do.
    That's an easy one to clear up. I abhor the killing of innocent civilians no matter which side does it.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Jones View Post

    And what do you mean by invasion force?

    America did not invade Iraq or Afghanistan - America and its allies liberated 50 million people in Iraq and Afghanistan.


    And the fairy princess granted them three wishes............... LOL!


    Anyway.

    You wrote, "We are no more moral than they are, we just have better weapons. That is all."

    The world knows their cowardly game - and no matter what you say, we are going to win. Nobody declares war on us, hits us, then tries to walk away crying about this and that because they are losing - I know payback's a bitch but................................... I say, if you can't take it, don't give it in the first place.
    Yeah I've seen the cowboy approach. They kill 3,000 civilians and we kill 100,000 civilians, we'll show them huh? And that allows them to recruit more terrorists than they had before our 8 years of "war on terror!"

    Good plan!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Yeah I've seen the cowboy approach. They kill 3,000 civilians and we kill 100,000 civilians, we'll show them huh? And that allows them to recruit more terrorists than they had before our 8 years of "war on terror!"

    Good plan!
    LOL - they are STILL blowing up innocent civillians in markets as I type, and intenionally, might I add.

    Adding to their recruits? They keep their people in crappy existance and then blame it on the west - and they don't know any better so.......... the idiots blow themselves up so their family can have a few dollars.

    THINK - THINK just for a moment - if they were doing so well in the first place, a few dollars wouldn't be such a great gift, certainly not worth blowing yourself up about, while also taking out innocent, unsuspecting, people in the process - and this is happening from countries that are OIL RICH to the balls. LOL - in order for some of that oil money to trickle down to them they have to blow themselves up - what a racket - what idiots they are to fall for it - and for you to fall for it............... LOL - sorry, we aren't that stupid to fall for it, but it's on you.

  9. #369
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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post

    In the major areas of a person's carbon output, heating and cooling and transportation, my output is less than half the average citizen. Of course that is nothing we all couldn't do with a little thought and planning.

    But hey, fighting wars to control the oil regions is another option.
    Fighting wars to prevent crazies and madmen from controlling most of the world oil supply and reserves is something that from time to time may be necessary in a world that abhors allowing crazies and madmen to prey and/or control the freedom loving, hard working, and industrious.

    As for your conservation efforts, those are commendable. In my household the use of energy, private transportation, and non biodegradable products is also less than half the average citizen but this is for aesthetic and practical reasons and has absolutely nothing to do with 'saving the planet' or 'being a good citizen of the world' or whatever. I have no illusions that I am significantly reducing my carbon footprint given what a small part of my participation in society that energy use and transportation is.

    And as I think the honest science is overwhelming, if not conclusive, that reducing our carbon footprint is futile in affecting climate change, I see no valid reason to take away choices, options, opportunities, and freedoms from anybody on the theory that it will make a difference re global warming. And I especially see no reason to doom whole groups of people to more generations of crushing poverty should we deny them ability to exploit their natural resources as we have already done.

    We do not want to unnecessarily allow poisons and toxins to pollute our soil, air, and water and I vigorously support reasonable laws and regulation to prevent that as much as possible. I support reasonable laws and regulations that preserve the aesthetic beauty of our planet and preserve the wonderful creatures living on it. And practicing reasonable conservation and thrift is commendable for almost all reasons.

    Most of all I support common sense in all things whether it is in trying and convicting a terrorist intent on hurting or destroying us or in dealing with inevitable issues of climate change and other natural phenomenon. If you take political correctness, partisanship, and ignorance out of it, we generally make pretty good decisions about most things.

    Let's don't harm our economy and freedoms by allowing opportunists to spike our kool-ade with junk science or by allowing opportunists to corrupt the judicial system by giving enemy combatants all the civil rights provided to U.S. citizens.
    Last edited by AlbqOwl; 12-01-09 at 01:48 PM.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Jones View Post
    LOL - they are STILL blowing up innocent civillians in markets as I type, and intenionally, might I add.

    Adding to their recruits? They keep their people in crappy existance and then blame it on the west - and they don't know any better so.......... the idiots blow themselves up so their family can have a few dollars.

    THINK - THINK just for a moment - if they were doing so well in the first place, a few dollars wouldn't be such a great gift, certainly not worth blowing yourself up about, while also taking out innocent, unsuspecting, people in the process - and this is happening from countries that are OIL RICH to the balls. LOL - in order for some of that oil money to trickle down to them they have to blow themselves up - what a racket - what idiots they are to fall for it.
    Our 8 years of war on terror has only increased terrorism world wide. Surprisingly, killing innocent civilians and invading countries that never attacked only increases the enemies numbers.

    Who would have thought it? LOL!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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