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Thread: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

  1. #291
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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    My gawd I love to see pitbulls fight.

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    This article says it all! Every question asked and answered. So what is the right so worried about? Easy! That Obama might get it right publically and undeniably.

    by Andrew Cohen

    Khalid Sheik Mohammed and You

    If you are upset about the Obama Administrationís decision to bring al-Qaeda leader Khalid Sheik Mohammed to New York for a federal civilian trial, and you are looking to blame someone, go straight to your bathroom and look into the mirror. You have no one to blame but yourself.

    You sat passively by for years while President George W. Bush and conservatives in Congress (both Republican and Democrat) ginned up one unconstitutional set of military commission rules after another. You didnít pay attention to the details of the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005 or the Military Commissions Act of 2006 or the major Supreme Court cases that told you the due process rules in place to try the terror suspects at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba were unlawful. You wanted revenge and retribution, even at the cost of justice and fairness, and, so long as the men you were (falsely) told were the ďworst of the worstĒ were on a foreign island and away from you, you were fine with it.

    For years, you didnít raise your voice and tell your elected officials that you welcomed a fair trial for the detainees under military rules. For years, you didnít demand that the detainees have lawyers, or access to some of the evidence against them, or meaningful appellate review, or protection from abuse. Either you didnít have confidence in the evidence against the men, or the application of the law, or you believed that America would somehow be rendered diminished and vulnerable by giving people like Mohammed more justice than they deserve. When the White House and the Congress reluctantly followed the letter but proudly not the spirit of the Supreme Courtís rulings in Hamdan or Hamdi or Boumediene you just changed the channel and moved on with your life.

    You were still so angry, so righteously angry, at what happened on September 11, 2001, that you just couldnít or wouldnít deal with the details. In good faith, you reckoned that the best and the brightest in Washington would figure out a way to get the job done, processing and prosecuting and sentencing the guilty efficiently and consistent with our nationís ideals. You delegated the job.

    When learned scholars told you that the vast majority of terror suspects on Cuba had nothing to do with anti-U.S. activities, you turned the page. When you first heard about the torture of terror suspects you said, ďGood,Ē until you saw the pictures at Abu Ghraib. You had doubts then, perhaps, but not enough of them to demand of your representatives any sort of formal inquiry into our nationís torture policy. You didnít read the torture memos. You didnít read the International Red Crossís seminal report. You didnít want to know what Bush-era lawyers like John Yoo and David Addington and Jay Bybee were up to.

    But now itís happened. As an indirect result of your inattention, and as a direct result of the strength of our Constitution and the concomitant failure of its political and legal stewards, one of these dark, sinister men is coming to Manhattan, to a courthouse just blocks from Ground Zero, for a federal civilian trial.

    Stay in front of the mirror for a second. What are you afraid of? What about a Mohammed trial here in the States makes you so angry? Do you think he shouldnít get the same rights as you? Okay, thatís fair. But so what? Arenít you willing to set aside your rage at his treatment for the diplomatic and political benefits America will receive from giving the guy an open trial? Donít you think that treating Mohammed and his colleagues like common criminals is precisely the right message to send to the world about terrorism and al-Qaeda? Donít you think it hurts their cause to be considered murderers and not jihadist soldiers?

    Are you distrustful of the federal judiciary? Have you taken the time to look at the track record that federal prosecutors have in successfully trying terror suspects in New York? Can you name a single case where the feds lost a major terror trial since September 11, 2001? Can you name one from before the terrible events that day? Is Tim McVeigh walking around Buffalo today? Is Terry Nichols walking around Kansas? Is Ramzi Youssef back in Brooklyn or Zacarias Moussaoui out on an airfield trying to fly planes in Minnesota? Have you heard from Jose Padilla or Richard Reid lately?

    Are you really worried that Mohammed will go free? Do you really think that a judge and jury are going to let this guy walk? The United States in United States v. Mohammed has the biggest home-court advantage in American legal history. Not only will the government have enough evidence to convict him, itís likely that Mohammed will gleefully help convict himself. Did you pay attention to the Moussaoui trial when he proudly declared his al-Qaeda allegiance in a Virginia courtroom? Have you paid attention to Mohammedís incriminating statements made to tribunal officers in Cuba?

    Are you worried that Mohammed will try to turn his trial into political theatre? So what? The world already has heard what he and his al-Qaeda pals think of America. The world already has seen the photos from Abu Ghraib. The world knows about waterboarding. Itís old news. Mohammed is just a man, and soon heíll be a defendant, and then heíll be a ranting, shrieking crazy person in court, then heíll be convicted and then heíll be sentenced. Donít be angry about it now that is going to occur. Donít fear it. Welcome it. And at the same time embrace your own role, and your own responsibility, for ensuring that it had to happen this way, at this time, and in this place.Khalid Sheik Mohammed and You - The Atlantic (November 16, 2009)

  3. #293
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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    The article doesn't say it all. It left out the points that Senator Graham made in this exchange with Eric Holder:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG7lm8Sfbo4&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube- Lindsey Graham Destroys Eric Holder[/ame]
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    The article doesn't say it all. It left out the points that Senator Graham made in this exchange with Eric Holder:
    All Graham was saying is covered in the article: the right is looking for a way out of doing a trial that will likely make Obama look good.

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by tjinta ibis View Post
    All Graham was saying is covered in the article: the right is looking for a way out of doing a trial that will likely make Obama look good.
    Then you think Holder competently answered the question as to whether Osama bin Laden would receive the same treatment Holder wants to give the guys he already has? You honestly think this isn't setting a dangerous precedent that is highly unwise? Graham doesn't give a flying fig about Obama's reputation one way or the other--he has been more inclined to support Obama than oppose him on most things. He has been incurring the ire of conservatives for some time now.

    But on this issue, Graham is absolutely right.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    I hope some of you accept this appology - sorry - I was wrong.

    I previously said that the choice to the Obama administration was up to them to go before a federal judge or a military tribunal - and because they hit civillians in NYC it did not necessitate a military tribunal - though I believe it is not a good choice, I believed the Obama administration rightfuly had that choice, and I figured what the heck, as long as they are found guilty and it doesn't become a trial against the former administration and our intelligence agencies - OK

    I got wrapped up in it being only about NYC because the trial is set to go there - and seeing the Twin Towers and it's occupants as civillian only.

    BUT - and I totally forgot all about it - again, sorry - they also hit the Pentagon on 9/11, and the Pentagon is all about our military - being housed with many military personnel who were directly affected by their actions.

    They hit a military target - therefore, they MUST be tried in a military tribunal.

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    We shouldn't worry about the safety of New York, now that mastermind, codename, KSM is in New York. We have the Patriot Act remember!! We'll be just dandy.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Jones View Post
    I hope some of you accept this appology - sorry - I was wrong.

    I previously said that the choice to the Obama administration was up to them to go before a federal judge or a military tribunal - and because they hit civillians in NYC it did not necessitate a military tribunal - though I believe it is not a good choice, I believed the Obama administration rightfuly had that choice, and I figured what the heck, as long as they are found guilty and it doesn't become a trial against the former administration and our intelligence agencies - OK

    I got wrapped up in it being only about NYC because the trial is set to go there - and seeing the Twin Towers and it's occupants as civillian only.

    BUT - and I totally forgot all about it - again, sorry - they also hit the Pentagon on 9/11, and the Pentagon is all about our military - being housed with many military personnel who were directly affected by their actions.

    They hit a military target - therefore, they MUST be tried in a military tribunal.
    Here at Debate Politics we don't ask for you to be right 100% of the time, but that you at least honestly admit mistakes when you are not correct.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by tjinta ibis View Post
    This article says it all! Every question asked and answered. So what is the right so worried about? Easy! That Obama might get it right publically and undeniably.
    That article is the kind of journalism i hate.Everyones an idiot except the guy writing.
    The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    It is only a obvious question to a few who misunderstand the causes, and more importantly, the solutions to terrorism.

    As the Rand report to the Pentagon stated, military solutions have only been successful in ending 7% of the terrorist groups in the past. Political solutions are the predominant way that terrorist groups have been defeated in the past. It is all about influencing hearts and minds throughout the world in order to reduce their recruitment capabilities.

    We've tried the military route for 8 years and it has been a failure. I think Holder thinks it more prudent to follow the recommendations of the Rand Report.

    I do too!
    The ironic thing is that Holder has no right to move this from the military courts to the civil courts. None. Zero. Nada.

    Only the president has this authority. He's hiding being Holder, but Obama acted alone on this move.

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