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Thread: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

  1. #21
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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Start prayin! You know it's going to be agony.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    If this turns into a security nightmare and a media storm, God help us.
    It will, count on it.

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    I don't know if I can do that. In the possible words of Machiavelli, "Father, now is not the time to create new enemies."
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    AHHA! I was just reading Machiavelli - He can give Obama some advice:

    "I hold that it much more secure to be feared than to be loved . . . love is held by a chain of obligation, which . . . is broken on every occasion for the sake of selfish profit; but their fear is secured by a dread of punishment which never fails you."

    Hah! I read that and thought "I love this guy, too bad he's dead!"
    I'd vote for Machiavelli any day
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

  5. #25
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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I'm angered and baffled by this civil-court decision.

    Aside everything that's already been mention . . .

    Since when do civilian courts have the authority to make decisions which were once pertaining to federal government and military assigned issues and decisions? Surely some things are going to come into question and do the civi courts really have the authority to make calls in regard to those issues?
    This brings into question issues of supremacy and so on - things that, in other cases in the past, the Supreme Court has been the only court to rule on.
    this is federal court. what's the issue here?

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  6. #26
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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    I think people are freaking out without understanding what's going on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    It doesn't matter, no evidence will be entered, as soon as they set foot on U.S. soil they will be entitled to full Constitutional protections, their right to a speedy trial has been violated, thus they must all be released on this technicality which is precisely what the Harvard Law graduate boy king wants. These people were just responding to us white oppressors after all.
    That's not how the law works, at all. Speedy trial kicks in once you're indicted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    The more I think of this - the absurdity, the outcry it will cause, the political fallout.....

    I just can't believe we've reached a point where we're trying people from halfway around the world in our court system for plotting to fly two jumbo airliners into our two tallest buildings in New York!

    Is this really what liberals want our country to look like?
    Is it any crazier than trying people from halfway around the world in our court system for plotting to blow up the world trade center with a truck bomb?

    We've done this for years and it's worked just fine. The blind sheik, Ramzi Yousef, John Walker Lindh and others have all been convicted in civilian courts. It worked just fine when Bush and Clinton did it, so I don't see any reason to think it wont work when Obama does it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    Yeah! Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is innocent. Free the Gitmo Five.

    Are you familiar with the process known as "discovery" in legal circles? Do you know how the discovery process will be used to expose American intelligence sources? Is this one of the reasons why KSM wasn't tried in the US District Court (SDNY) in the first place?
    Are you familiar with the fact that they don't have to turn over all their sources? Or with the fact that they wouldn't bring a civilian prosecution if they didn't have admissible evidence to convict them on? Or with the fact that they've already stated their desire to plead guilty, thus obviating the need for discovery?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Fox News devoted a good deal of time re this issue this morning. The Administration of course is arguing that the public should be able to see and know of the proceedings in this trial and a military tribunal would deny that to them. They can't give a reason for that, but that is their 'reason' for bringing the five culprits to the USA for trial.

    They are pooh poohing any possibility that a liberal judge might dismiss the case outright or release these guys on a technicality.
    Good for Fox News, because they're absolutely right. It's not happening, as much as it seems some on here would love it.

    If they are released they would be released IN the USA.
    No they would not.

    Another 'legal expert' stated an opinion that a military tribunal would probably be held and sentence pronounced within the next year; however, it will be at least a decade before opening arguments will be heard in a civil trial.
    That "legal expert" is a goddamn moron. Again we've done this many times before. This is not some new thing that Obama is just making up.

    Conclusion: Our Muslim-sympathetic Administration is most likely throwing a bone to the Muslim world by ensuring that these guys will likely never go on trial until the current Administration is done and long gone.
    Conclusion: People will use any excuse to attack their political opponents on something, even if they don't have the slightest clue what they're talking about.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  7. #27
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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    They all want to be martyrs, Obama provides that opportunity.

    Think this will turn into a clown show? What kind of information or testimony will come to light? How much will security cost?

    And then.....do I hear the President asking that we don't draw conclusions at Fort Hood, is this the same? Innocent until proven guilty, will they get fair trials three blocks from where the killed thousands?
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    ....
    Are you familiar with the fact that they don't have to turn over all their sources? Or with the fact that they wouldn't bring a civilian prosecution if they didn't have admissible evidence to convict them on? Or with the fact that they've already stated their desire to plead guilty, thus obviating the need for discovery?
    ....
    Well Counselor, you're going to have to educate me.

    You ask whether I'm aware the US Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York doesn't have to turn over all of it's sources. A Federal District Court Judge will make this determination. Since KSM will be on American soil does he not then acquire the right to confront his accusers? Sources will be compromised. Lawyers for criminal defendants use the right of discovery as leverage against the prosecution. The Govt. is forced to choose between compromising sources and intelligence, or holding back evidence incriminating the defendant.

    You also ask me if I am familiar with the fact that the Govt. wouldn't bring a civilian prosecution if it didn't have admissible evidence to convict. What is your factual basis for making this assertion. This happens all the time. Have you ever heard of Wen Ho Lee?

    Finally, you ask me whether I am familiar with the fact that the Gitmo Five have already stated their desire to plead guilty, thus obviating the need for discovery. Here is where I can tell that you are a layman. The Gitmo Five asked the Military Tribunal in Gitmo if they could enter a guilty plea. They were not allowed to do so. Obama killed the Military Tribunals. Prosecution in Federal District Court is an entirely new proceeding. What was said in the Military Tribunals will not be admissible. Even if it was the Gitmo Five would claim they were coerced into making those incriminating statements, plead not guilty, and since the death penalty may be on the line, no court in America will deny them the right to full, comprehensive, and complete discovery.

  9. #29
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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    They all want to be martyrs, Obama provides that opportunity.

    Think this will turn into a clown show? What kind of information or testimony will come to light? How much will security cost?

    And then.....do I hear the President asking that we don't draw conclusions at Fort Hood, is this the same? Innocent until proven guilty, will they get fair trials three blocks from where the killed thousands?
    i think it's a good thing these trials will be held in daylight. good for us, and good for our reputation.

    and justice will be done.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  10. #30
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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    this is federal court. what's the issue here?
    Yes, but where are the lines drawn? There are some issues that the Supreme Court has stated are purely political-question issues and to be considered by the legislative branch, only. So are there similar things that apply to this current case (civilian court ruling on a case when the guilty party was first in custody of the military)?

    I don't understand how this is going to cross over fluidly.

    Obviously I don't know how things in this way would work . . . I'm going to have to learn more before I understand what this truly means.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

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