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Thread: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

  1. #251
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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    ....
    But fringe conservatives offered an assault on America’s legal system while providing no legitimate solutions on how to deal with terror detainees aside from keeping Guantanamo open....
    Factual error.

    Al Jazeera English - CENTRAL/S. ASIA - US unveils extended Bagram prison

    Bagram Obama.

  2. #252
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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The case you referred to was in 1942.
    And it's still good law. So good, in fact, that the Obama Administration has relied on it repeatedly in asserting its authority to detain suspected terrorists.

    I thought you were going to link to a current challenge by the Supreme court over the Justice Dept's current plans to try the terrorists.
    What are you talking about?

    As far as being an enemy combatant. That is simply a term used incorrectly by the previous administration.
    Wrong again. The concept of an unlawful or enemy combatant has existed for well over a century. The exact term "unlawful combatant" has been accepted since the 40's.

    As I showed before, that misnomer is not being applied by the current administration ~

    "WASHINGTON (CNN) -- In a dramatic break with the Bush administration, the Justice Department on Friday announced it is doing away with the designation of "enemy combatant," which allowed the United States to hold suspected terrorists at length without criminal charges."
    U.S. reverses policy, drops 'enemy combatant' term - CNN.com
    lol. The fact that Obama is no longer using the explicit term "unlawful combatants" doesn't change the fact that he has reasserted the underlying principle. Again, read the In Re Gitmo Detainee Litigation filing above.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  3. #253
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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    From your link ~ "'Guantanamo's evil twin'

    However, Clara Gutteridge, an investigator of secret prisons and renditions from the human rights organisation, Reprieve, said Bagram is seen as "Guantanamo's lesser-known evil twin".

    That is what you call a legitimate solution?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  4. #254
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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    From your link ~ "'Guantanamo's evil twin'

    However, Clara Gutteridge, an investigator of secret prisons and renditions from the human rights organisation, Reprieve, said Bagram is seen as "Guantanamo's lesser-known evil twin".

    That is what you call a legitimate solution?
    I don't think you understood his point.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post


    What are you talking about?

    What I am talking about is there is no current Supreme Court decision or plans for one to stop the Justice Dept from trying the terrorists in federal court.



    Wrong again. The concept of an unlawful or enemy combatant has existed for well over a century. The exact term "unlawful combatant" has been accepted since the 40's.

    And who determines who is an enemy combatant?

    lol. The fact that Obama is no longer using the explicit term "unlawful combatants" doesn't change the fact that he has reasserted the underlying principle. Again, read the In Re Gitmo Detainee Litigation filing above.
    I agree with the human rights organizations on that one, that they should not be held indefinitely without a trial.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Please use the quote feature.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    What I am talking about is there is no current Supreme Court decision or plans for one to stop the Justice Dept from trying the terrorists in federal court.
    And where did I say there was or should be? Oy vey. If you don't understand what I'm saying, don't make assumptions.

    And who determines who is an enemy combatant?
    The executive, pursuant to his Art. II powers.

    I agree with the human rights organizations on that one, that they should not be held indefinitely without a trial.
    And the Obama administration, following long-standing precedent, disagrees with you.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  7. #257
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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    what was wrong with the military tribunals?
    You mean aside from the fact that only 3 have been tried in 8 years?

    "A close look at Quirin reveals a process and a decision with so many deficiencies that it should be remembered as a precedent not worthrepeating. The same conclusion applies to the record of other U.S. mili-tary commissions over the past two centuries. In addition to issues sur-rounding precedents of dubious and disturbing quality, a second fundamental question arises: are these commissions created on the basis of constitutional authority conferred upon Congress, or may they be established by drawing on “inherent” authority available to the President? If the latter, there should be concern about a President concentrating all three powers––executive, legislative, and judicial––in a single branch and opening the door to undefined, and probably indefinable, emergency powers. Allowing military commissions to operate on the exclusive authority of the President poses a challenge to basic principles of the U.S. Constitution, including the war prerogatives of Congress, separation of powers, and checks and balances. The framers believed that the rights and liberties of individuals can be best protected by structuring government in such a manner that power is not concentrated––and abused––in a single branch. In any war, including actions against terrorism, power must be vested in the federal government and executive agencies, but a democratic society requires Congress and the courts to closely monitor the exercise of authority.

    I. A SYSTEM OF SEPARATION OF POWERS

    The American constitutional system is founded on the principle of the separation of powers. Contrary to the willingness of some people today to defer to the government’s use of power after 9/11, the framers did not trust human nature. James Madison counseled: “Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.”2 The framers depended on institutional structures to check power. Madison said in Federalist No. 47 that the “accumulation of all powers legislative, executive and judiciary in the same hands . . . may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny.”3It was the military abuses by the King of England that drovecolonial leaders in America to seek their independence and to limit theconcentration of military power in the new republic."
    MILITARY COMMISSIONS: PROBLEMS OF AUTHORITY AND PRACTICE
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    what was wrong with the military tribunals?
    I don't know. Let's ask Catawba...

    Catawba, are you opposed to a military tribunal for terrorists?

  9. #259
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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Please use the quote feature.

    It does not work on my computer.

    And where did I say there was or should be? Oy vey. If you don't understand what I'm saying, don't make assumptions.

    So there is no one contesting the Justice Dept on a legal basis? That was my point.

    The executive, pursuant to his Art. II powers.

    Exactly, the executive does not deem them to be enemy combatants as I have referenced twice now.

    And the Obama administration, following long-standing precedent, disagrees with you.
    I do not agree with Obama on many things. He is far too much of a moderate on some issues. He was just better than the alternative.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #260
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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I don't know. Let's ask Catawba...

    Catawba, are you opposed to a military tribunal for terrorists?
    I've already answered that question. See here
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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