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Thread: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

  1. #231
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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Because....?
    Miranda, speedy trial, lawyer present during questioning, coercion during questioning.... etc.
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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Because....?
    Because KSM was never read his miranda rights.

    KSM was coerced into talking.

    The president has unduely influenced the outcome of the trial.

    The list goes on, but those are just the high points.
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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I do not know, you posted the links.
    .....


    .....


    I posted them as a response to your claim that no "reputable" news organization would put two and two together and conclude that political considerations, i.e. demonizing Bush Administration detainee policy, may have come into play here.

    That is the purpose of a trial, to determine if the charges are valid. If they are found to be guilty as charged, I have no problem with the death penalty. Being carried our under the rule of law is what is important.
    But you already said that Bin Laden didn't do it, so how could they be guilty? I mean, if I were you, I'd be worried that people were going to let their emotions convict these 5 innocent people.

    It is important for our allies and potential terrorists recruits to know that we are not the great Satan with morals no higher than those that attacked us.
    And how exactly does the show trial portion of our newly bifurcated system of justice do that?
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post

    But you already said that Bin Laden didn't do it, so how could they be guilty? I mean, if I were you, I'd be worried that people were going to let their emotions convict these 5 innocent people.

    Well to begin with, unlike with Bin Laden there are official charges against KSM for the 9/11 attack. It will be up to the judge and jury to determine guilt.

    And how exactly does the show trial portion of our newly bifurcated system of justice do that?
    Its not new, many more terrorist have been convicted under the court system than by military tribunal at Guantanamo.

    "This weekend, with developments on civilian and military trials for Guantanamo detainees, a secure prison facility to house some of them in the US and reforms to the military prison in Bagram, Afghanistan, the Administration showed significant progress toward a comprehensive plan that uses military and law enforcement tools to keep Americans safe. National security experts, military and prosecutors, and the people of Thomson, Illinois responded positively.

    But fringe conservatives offered an assault on America’s legal system while providing no legitimate solutions on how to deal with terror detainees aside from keeping Guantanamo open. Given that the facility has produced only three successful prosecutions while blackening the US reputation and becoming a prominent extremist recruiting tool, it is clear that the status quo is inadequate. But extreme conservatives responded with crass politicization that undermines the very institutions they say they want to protect."
    Conservatives Attack America?s Legal System | National Security Network
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  5. #235
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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind - Times Online

    Interesting, they will be tried under a civilian court, I wonder if evidence obtained through questionable means will be dismissed
    I think the Civilian court makes a big difference in the case.

    Along with any evidence gathered by questionable means (torture).. there will first be a very well grounded Motion for 'change of venue'.

    If ever there was situation where changing it was justified.. it would be 1000 yards from a crime scene and crime witnessed by/affecting Ten million people/Everyone in the surrounding area.

    They might as well move it to Miami or Cincinnati now.
    which would be more of a security problem.
    Something Holder SHOULD have thought of.
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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Its not new, many more terrorist have been convicted under the court system than by military tribunal at Guantanamo.
    I'm referring to the Obama Administration's new policy of looking at each individual detainee and deciding what to do based on how strong the admissible evidence is.

    If we have a surfeit of admissible evidence that will guarantee conviction, we try them in the Article III courts.

    If we have a fair amount of evidence, but a significant portion of it is either inadmissible or questionable, we try them in the military tribunals.

    If we have a small amount of evidence, or if all the evidence is inadmissible or questionable, we simply keep them locked up in Gitmo or Bagram.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I'm referring to the Obama Administration's new policy of looking at each individual detainee and deciding what to do based on how strong the admissible evidence is.

    If we have a surfeit of admissible evidence that will guarantee conviction, we try them in the Article III courts.

    If we have a fair amount of evidence, but a significant portion of it is either inadmissible or questionable, we try them in the military tribunals.

    If we have a small amount of evidence, or if all the evidence is inadmissible or questionable, we simply keep them locked up in Gitmo or Bagram.

    Apparently not, and I for one am glad to see them finally brought to justice after 8 years.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Hey Genius. Due process of law also allowed them to be tried in a military court.
    According to the President's order authorizing military tribunals under the War on Terror, entitled the "Detention, Treatment, and Trial of Certain Non-Citizens in the War Against Terrorism", the conditions of trial are less protective of the defendants' rights and more favorable to the prosecution. [insert FN to Pres Power Stories --- not sure what this source is & what page #, etc to put in the footnote -- ajay; It is the book "Presidential Power Stories" but it is not available at any of UCLA's libraries--alicia]. "Conviction, for example, [is] possible on a two-thirds rather than unanimous vote, upon a lesser standard of proof than beyond a reasonable doubt, on evidence [that is not allowed in federal courts and on secret evidence], and with no right of appeal."
    Doesn't sound like due process to me, and it's not a system you would allow yourself to be adjudicated under.

    No you don't. You want to put politics ahead of keeping New York City more safe instead of keeping this guy at Guantanamo and being tried there, again perfectly legal and instead put political pot shots at the past administration and risk more American lives.
    Right wing fear mongering which I don't remember when McVeigh was tried in civil court, or Mousaaoui or the blind sheikh.

    I wouldn't be proud of that.
    You are quite proud of making sure that justice is a rubber stamp.

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    good, can you put him up in your home when he's acquitted? I am sure he would appreciate the hospitality....


    j-mac
    Anybody who thinks he'll be acquitted is caving in to the usual right wing fear mongering.

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by tjinta ibis View Post
    Anybody who thinks he'll be acquitted is caving in to the usual right wing fear mongering.



    So you are suggesting the fix is in? That this is a show trial, and the outcome is predetermined?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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