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Thread: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    Now that you have my attention we shall see won't we?
    Beware. Stay Away. We have hippies.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    Beware. Stay Away. We have hippies.
    Racism or racialism isn't funny. It hurts. It divides. It demeans. In your case it draws unwanted attention.

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    Racism or racialism isn't funny. It hurts. It divides. It demeans. In your case it draws unwanted attention.
    How do you stop 5 black guys from raping a white chick?

    THROW EM A BASKETBALL!



    Yep...Still funny. What we're you talking about again?


    You know, we always come together when we need to, and that's what matters. They want us to play nice with each other so that we become more like a herd of sheep.

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Funny people are the first line of defense against inclusive, or oppressive regimes.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

  5. #145
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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    If these cases are blown, it will be because of the idiotic incompetence of Bush and Cheney. As far as New York being able to handle the security of these guys, bring 'em on.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/14/ny...urity.html?hpw
    Great, what this debate really needed was some uninformed ranting followed by an article that says nothing about the topic of the aforementioned rant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    The Govt. denied physically torturing Padilla. To the best of my knowledge there was no finding of fact that Padilla had received anything other than cause for psychological concern about his fate. No determination of physical torture was made. In contrast, KSM was waterboarded more than 180 times. That's clearly physical torture that the US Govt. has already admitted. That's the distinction that leads me to believe that much if not most evidence against KSM will be inadmissible.
    I don't discount that possibility, I just have to assume that they're confident that they will have enough admissible evidence to get this done.

    I want to go back to the subject of military tribunals. Obama originally ordered the end of the Bush military tribunal system. Then, he reinstated the system. I wonder why Obama reinstated the system?
    IMO, because he realized that he couldn't get convictions on everyone and couldn't just let these people go. It looks like it was one of many changes of heart that Obama had once he was faced with the realities of his position.

    KSM could have been processed through the military tribunal system without bringing him to our soil, without giving him a forum to attack us, without running the risk that so much of the evidence might be ruled inadmissible, and without running a series of other risks.

    I understand you believe the choice of the US District Court as the forum reflects the confidence of the Obama Administration in a successful prosecution. But even if you are correct in this belief the fact remains KSM would be just as likely to be convicted before a military tribunal.

    Based on the foregoing I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that there is another motive or motives to explain why KSM and his posse will be tried in US District Court. What could that motive(s) be?

    Perhaps Obama wants to restore the reputation of the American judicial system internationally. But I don't believe this because there's no payoff. The Euro Peons are already in love with Obama so this isn't necessary in order to obtain their fickle affection. Imo the nuances and subtleties of the American Criminal Justice System will escape the Arab Street. The Arab Street will be enthralled by exposure of the faults of American policy. So I don't think an international audience is Obama's primary target. At best the international community is a secondary audience.

    So it seems to me there is another audience who will be pleased by the exposure of American sins. Who might they be? The American Left? This is what I believe. This belief is based on my understanding of how lawyers and politicians do things in this era. A game within a game within a game. By that I mean lawyers and politicians must necessarily anticipate events by thinking many steps ahead.

    What is the most important thing to any politician? Reelection. If Obama does commit to fighting his war, he will disappoint many of his core supporters. To counter the effects of that disappointment he must give them something they want. They want a show trial of the Bush Administration and the American intelligence community.

    Yes, I'm speculating. However, there is a method to my madness. By eliminating other possible motives I am left with what I believe to be the primary motive for bringing the circus to town.

    I apologize for this stream of consciousness.
    There's no need to apologize, because it's a perfectly logical conclusion. I'll admit that I hadn't thought about this possibility before, and there could very well be some truth to it. However, I'm having a hard time following through because of a few sticking points:

    -If you're right, then it means Obama is willing to take the risk of KSM being acquitted in order to have a chance to pillory the Bush administration's practices. I don't know that I can believe that, as it seems like a huge risk to take in order to get an advantage that could have been realized is several other ways. Obama has continuously taken the middle-road approach toward looking back at the Yoo crew, despite the fact that if he wanted to score some points on this issue, that would have been the low-hanging fruit.

    -Even if we can attribute these motives to Obama, who is seeking reelection, he's not the only one who's involved in this process. For someone like Preet Bharara, a loss on the KSM trial would be career suicide. I can't imagine that he and the USA for the EDVA would be fighting to get this case if they weren't near-certain of victory. Lawyers may play all sorts of games, but they're also risk-averse (otherwise they'd be bankers).

    In the end, it may well be that Obama schemed this whole plan up in order to get a political advantage. However, since we'll never really know, I can only really judge his decision by the outcome.

    RightinNYC,

    Here's an interesting article by Alan Dershowitz. He agrees with your conclusion about the suitability of the federal courts, but validates each of my concerns.
    You and he may well be right, and I may have understated the difficulties of prosecuting this case. At this point, I can only hope that the cases find their way to friendly judges and that they have enough admissible evidence to get things done.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    Funny people are the first line of defense against inclusive, or oppressive regimes.


    I'll do my best! MEAT-SHIELD, AWAY!

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post


    I'll do my best! MEAT-SHIELD, AWAY!
    We're probably going to need you in these Pre-FEMA concentration camp days.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    We're probably going to need you in these Pre-FEMA concentration camp days.
    I will break everyone out. Even if I have to steal a uniform and blend in. and I'll do it with such panache that those who would oppose America will facepalm...like hard.


    Just in case we do go FEMA-camp-ish. Look for the >:C (angry face) It's how I will lead the resistance!

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    I will break everyone out. Even if I have to steal a uniform and blend in. and I'll do it with such panache that those who would oppose America will facepalm...like hard.


    Just in case we do go FEMA-camp-ish. Look for the >:C (angry face) It's how I will lead the resistance!
    Don't bust me out. I've already put in my request to go to the camp in Colorado and I'm gonna chill out there and get my free room and board.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    If these cases are blown, it will be because of the idiotic incompetence of Bush and Cheney. As far as New York being able to handle the security of these guys, bring 'em on.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/14/ny...urity.html?hpw
    If these cases are blown, the American people will know, for a fact, that we have a dumbass for a CIC.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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