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Thread: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

  1. #91
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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    Does that mean you passed?.... or didn't go.
    I've been a lawyer longer than you've been a jerk.

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    If AG Holder thought that there was even a one in a thousand chance that these people would be acquitted, he would have never allowed this to go forward in the federal court system.

    Hell, even if they were somehow acquitted, that doesn't mean that Obama wouldn't simply exercise his "post-acquittal detention power" to keep them in custody anyway.
    How do you know the truth of the matter you assert on Holder's opinion and actions? Imo it's not humanly possible to know Holder's intentions. Are you speculating? That's ok, but it's not an objectively determinable fact.

    If Obi Wan exercises his post acquittal detention authority there will be an uproar on the American and European left the likes of which none of us has ever seen imo.

  3. #93
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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    So, you construe the DOI's language to mean that enemy combatants captured on foreign soil are entitled to the legal rights enumerated in the US Constitution?
    No. I construe the DOI to mean that enemy combatants tried by the U.S. are entitled to fair trial. One of those inalienable rights all men are entitled to. But I see you're still being dense as most libertarians seem to be when Ron Paul isn't around to cum liberty into their faces.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    But I'm sure they weren't talking about fair trials.
    Also, I would like to point out that the right to trial is not actually an "unalienable" right, so your sarcastic comment was really an exercise in delicious irony...

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Also, I would like to point out that the right to trial is not actually an "unalienable" right, so your sarcastic comment was
    really an exercise in delicious irony...
    I'm trying to figure out whether you're trying to be a grammar Nazi or a complete Ron Pauligan tonight. Not sure yet but here :



    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights]Universal Declaration of Human Rights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    Quote Originally Posted by Article 10
    Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    No. I construe the DOI to mean that enemy combatants tried by the U.S. are entitled to fair trial.
    Your reference to a "fair" trial is utterly nonsensical since it erroneously presupposes that he has any right to Constitutional due process in the first place.

    A military tribunal would have sufficed, and is consistent with the principles espoused in the DOI and the US Constitution.

    One of those inalienable rights all men are entitled to. But I see you're still being dense as most libertarians seem to be when Ron Paul isn't around to cum liberty into their faces.
    Why are you so obsessed with cum?

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I'm trying to figure out whether you're trying to be a grammar Nazi or a complete Ron Pauligan tonight. Not sure yet but here :



    Universal Declaration of Human Rights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    A fair trial is not an "unalienable" right, and since the DOI affirms the existence of unalienable rights (not social rights) your sarcastic reference to fair trials as it pertains to the DOI remains an exercise in delicious, succulent irony.

  8. #98
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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    .

    Obama is a Muslim and remember they are allowed to lie to us infidels but they have to come to the aid of their fellow Islamists. Look for more of it to come as he gets closer to his goals of Socialism/Marxism.
    .
    You really have no idea what you are talking about.

    If you had the slightest idea what an Islamist is, then you would understand that Socialist/Marxist Islamist not only makes no sense, but that it is a contradiction.

    The very purpose the Islamist movement(s) is to derail these "isms" within their country. They reject these Western terminology.

    Obama is a Muslim, according to the Qu'ran, same for Mary, Jesus, and Billy Graham
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

  9. #99
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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I know the case to which you're referring, and the majority's reasoning was at odds with sanity. I believe Scalia summed it up quite nicely in his dissent.

    What are your thoughts?
    I'm not sure what you're specifically referring to, as there are a multitude of cases dealing with this topic. Everyone being held is entitled to some sort of process, but the question of what that process must entail is incredibly complex. There are cases that fall into almost every category.

    Detainee is a US citizen captured in the US: Rumsfeld v. Padilla
    Detainee is an alien captured in the US: Al Marri v. Pucciarelli
    Detainee is a US citizen caputred outside the US: Hamdi v. Rumsfeld
    Detainee is an alien captured outside the US: In re Guantanamo Bay Detainees Litigation

    Beyond that 2X2 matrix, there are even more factors:

    Detainee was captured outside the US in a combat zone: Hamdi v. Rumsfeld
    Detainee was captured outside the US outside of a combat zone: Boumedine v. Bush

    or

    Detainee is being held on the battlefield: Al Maqualeh v. Gates
    Detainee is being held off the battlefield: Boumedine v. Bush

    My personal opinion is that it's incredibly difficult to look at these cases and conclude that you can draw a clear line about what rights each of these individuals deserve.


    Does someone being held in the territorial US deserve more protections than an identical person being held at Guantanamo, and do both of those people deserve more protections than a third person being held at Bagram AFB?


    As a practical matter, I don't know how I would rule on this. While it seems obvious that someone being held in a US prison should be treated differently than someone being held in Afghanistan, enforcing such a rule would just create a perverse incentive. The reason the US began using Guantanamo was because it was a place that the government thought would be under its control but would not offer the detainees the same rights as if they were held on US soil. Since Boumedine, the government has simply been shipping everyone they capture to Bagram. Now that a judge has indicated that that might be a no-go, who knows what will happen next?

    Should someone captured on a battlefield in Afghanstan be treated differently than someone captured while plotting an attack in Pakistan or someone captured while traveling through the US?

    I think the current approach on this is somewhat counterproductive - it offers additional protections to people captured here in the US while giving the fewest freedoms to those captured in Afghanistan. If we're trying to prevent terrorism, who is more dangerous - someone in a cave in Afghanistan or someone who is part of a sleeper cell driving to Chicago O'Hare?

    In summary, I just don't know how I feel about this general approach. If you have a more specific question, I'll try to explain my thoughts on it as best as I can.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: New York trial for alleged 9/11 mastermind

    I'm not gonna lie.

    This post Gitmo pic is a bit threatening.




    He could pass as a Sesame Street Character.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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