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Thread: Federal Deficit Hits October Record of $176 Billion

  1. #31
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    Re: Federal Deficit Hits October Record of $176 Billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    I'd like to thanks Bush for the failed $700 billion financial bailout and Obama for his failed addition of $700 billion economic stimulus program.

    All you politicians need to stay the hell away from my money.
    We should really stop pretending that the stimulus is a stimulus.

    Only the 6% or so spent including the tax relief should be called a stimulus. The rest should be called what it actually is: long term infrastructure investment

    Stimulus are meant to be timely. What Obama pushed is anything but.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Federal Deficit Hits October Record of $176 Billion

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    We should really stop pretending that the stimulus is a stimulus.

    Only the 6% or so spent including the tax relief should be called a stimulus. The rest should be called what it actually is: long term infrastructure investment

    Stimulus are meant to be timely. What Obama pushed is anything but.
    I have to strongly disagree with this, this was a democrat gift basket, to states, cities, and local groups that support democrat causes. It should be investigated as a criminal matter, but I think this is why they are now pulling it back.

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    Re: Federal Deficit Hits October Record of $176 Billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackboot View Post
    I have to strongly disagree with this, this was a democrat gift basket, to states, cities, and local groups that support democrat causes.
    Then why did huge amounts of money get poured into states with Republican governors and Congresses and directly put under the thumb of Republicans? If it was really a Democrat gift basked, strongly Republican states like Kentucky would have gotten nothing. That wasn't the case.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Federal Deficit Hits October Record of $176 Billion

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Then why did huge amounts of money get poured into states with Republican governors and Congresses and directly put under the thumb of Republicans? If it was really a Democrat gift basked, strongly Republican states like Kentucky would have gotten nothing. That wasn't the case.
    It went to social programs, with strings attached, this is why many republicans rejected the offer. This doesn't mean that republicans are not above taking bribes, many did, glady......

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    Re: Federal Deficit Hits October Record of $176 Billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackboot View Post
    It went to social programs, with strings attached, this is why many republicans rejected the offer. This doesn't mean that republicans are not above taking bribes, many did, glady......
    Some of it went to social programs, but a large percent of it is geared towards building schools, bridges, roads, basic infrastructure. Furthermore, a large amount of it was tax relief. I really don't see the bill as a partisan favoring spending bill.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Federal Deficit Hits October Record of $176 Billion

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Some of it went to social programs, but a large percent of it is geared towards building schools, bridges, roads, basic infrastructure. Furthermore, a large amount of it was tax relief. I really don't see the bill as a partisan favoring spending bill.
    The Economic "Stimulus"
    by Thomas Sowell (January 6, 2009)



    Two centuries ago, when there were plans to create a huge fund of money to pay off Britain's national debt, the great classical economist David Ricardo objected on grounds that-- no matter what the money was said to be for-- politicians could spend it for whatever they wanted.

    Two centuries later, we have not yet caught up to that plain reality, even though the $700 billion that was supposed to be used to rescue financial institutions has already begun to be spent on other things.

    Regardless of what President Bush or Secretary of the Treasury Paulson may have had in mind when they promoted this huge bailout package, with all due respect to these gentlemen what they had in mind will not matter in the slightest after January 20th.

    All that money is just a gift to the Democrats to spend in whatever ways will advance the interests of their constituents and of the Democratic Party.

    It was not just a gift of money-- huge though that is-- it is also a gift of exemption from Republican criticism, even for the bailout of General Motors, which President Bush began, even when Congress refused to give GM the money without preconditions. It is a political get-out-of-jail-free card that can cover whatever disasters the Democrats create on their own in the years ahead.

    The whole idea behind the "stimulus" package begins to look more and more dubious as the outlines of the policy begin to take shape.

    Take the idea that much of this money will be spent on "infrastructure." This certainly sounds good-- until you stop and think about it. So do most political notions.

    Does spending on infrastructure mean that the money is going to be spent filling potholes and repairing bridges? Or will it be spent creating new things?

    One of the key reasons why infrastructure gets neglected, in the first place, is that there is very little political pay-off to filling potholes and repairing bridges, compared to spending that same money creating community centers, bike paths and other things.

    These new things create opportunities for ribbon-cutting ceremonies that give politicians favorable free publicity in the media. But nobody holds ribbon-cutting ceremonies for filling in potholes or repairing bridges.

    The whole process is biased toward doing new things, even if the repair and maintenance of existing infrastructure would serve the public interest better.

    But, even in the unlikely event that the public interest triumphs over special interests, there is another very important difference between repair and maintenance activities, on the one hand, versus building new things on the other.

    New things require long delays before they can get started, especially when they have to be done by politicians. Someone once said that Congress would take 30 days to make instant coffee-- and Congress is just the beginning of the delays, as all sorts of competing interests jockey for position at the public trough.

    Just putting together an environmental impact report for something new to be built can be a long process, especially if its findings are challenged by environmental extremists, who pay very little price for challenging, even if the delays caused by their challenges cost others millions of dollars.

    In short, it can be years before the money that is supposed to stimulate the economy actually gets into the economy. And nobody knows what the economy will be like when that money finally gets into circulation.

    A common problem with government economic policies in general is that it is very hard to predict how long it will be before the policy actually affects the economy. An economic stimulus policy created during a contraction in demand can take effect during an inflationary expansion of demand-- and fuel still more inflation.



    The Economic "Stimulus" by Thomas Sowell -- Capitalism Magazine

    My favorite economist says it best.....
    Last edited by Jackboot; 11-15-09 at 05:27 PM.

  7. #37
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    Re: Federal Deficit Hits October Record of $176 Billion

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    You clearly do not understand it.
    LOL!

    what's not to understand about imports increasing twice as fast as exports despite a declining dollar?

    what's not to comprehend about the compulsion to revise downward the 3.5 gdp?

    who could misperceive that a major part of clunkers benefited canadians, mexicans and koreans?

    etc

    it's pretty simple, actually

    and it all adds up to the biggest growth in trade deficits in a decade

    ie, another unpleasant headline

  8. #38
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    Re: Federal Deficit Hits October Record of $176 Billion

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    We should really stop pretending that the stimulus is a stimulus.
    ok

    what it actually is: long term infrastructure investment
    LOL!

    where's the infrastructure in studying radioactive rabbit droppings?

    a bridge connecting microsoft towers?

    studies of coeds' sex lives?

    turtle tunnels?

    stimulus checks for the dead?

    snow making machinery for minnesotans?

    fish sperm freezers?

    pet neutering?

    signs advertising---stimulus funds at work?

    basket weaving and storytelling?

    etc, etc, etc?

    After a flurry of stimulus spending, questionable projects pile up | Washington Examiner

    infrastructure---LOL!

    Stimulus are meant to be timely. What Obama pushed is anything but.
    no doubt

  9. #39
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    Re: Federal Deficit Hits October Record of $176 Billion

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackboot View Post
    My favorite economist says it best.....
    You do realize he doesn't provide a single example of the Democrats doing what he claimed they would do?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  10. #40
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    Re: Federal Deficit Hits October Record of $176 Billion

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    LOL!

    what's not to understand about imports increasing twice as fast as exports despite a declining dollar?

    what's not to comprehend about the compulsion to revise downward the 3.5 gdp?

    who could misperceive that a major part of clunkers benefited canadians, mexicans and koreans?
    Goldenboy claimed that a weak dollar should push exports up. You claimed that did not happen and posted a link that showed that exports actually did increase.

    Seeing how you haven't quite realized this I question your capacity to read.

    Furthermore, you cited the trade imbalance as evidence exports declined yet you did not understand that exports can increase at the same time the trade deficit increases.

    And tangents don't prove you weren't wrong the first time.

    While I realize your capacity to read is questionable and likely your capacity to do math is equally questionable, tell me, do your cited examples exceed the amount assigned to infrastructure?

    http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu...water0416.html

    Over $1 billion is set aside for just water infrastructure improvements.

    http://projects.nytimes.com/44th_president/stimulus
    Last edited by obvious Child; 11-15-09 at 09:57 PM.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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