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Paratrooper's Mom Begs Obama: 'End It'

EpicDude86 said:
Never heard them discuss what you think is Patriotism? or Patriotism in general? Maybe you're just not watching enough Faux News or YouTube.

Moderate? Hmmm...I wonder...Can you see the game being played in front of you? It's being played with your livelihood, by the way. Politics isn't about giving the people what they need, it's about giving them what they want to hear. And most people, people like you or me not included, buy into this and go for whoever will give them more or whoever is prettier, etc.

Modern Politics in this country are like High School SGA Elections. Each candidate promises fruit punch in the water fountains and more recess, regardless of whether they can really achieve that. And then, sometimes seemingly out of spite alone, the opposing side will cause friction. There are no 2 parties, there is rarely anyone that is genuine, and even less of those actually want what their constituents want. It's just Us, and them. And what's sad is most people see them and take sides of the Politicians, further splitting it up into Us and our legion of goons and Them and their legion of goons.
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Oh, I thought you were talking about real life.

So you wanted Kucinich too???

We get the government we deserve. Our representatives are no better or worse than the people they represent.

Given that, Obama is the best we could hope for.
 
Catawba said:
Oh, I thought you were talking about real life.
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Yeah, I figured you'd say something to that effect.

Catawba said:
So you wanted Kucinich too???
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:lol:

Catawba said:
We get the government we deserve. Our representatives are no better or worse than the people they represent.
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That's a slap in the face to a lot of honest, Patriotic Americans who aren't represented or who get shat upon by their elected official or Government.

Catawba said:
Given that, Obama is the best we could hope for.
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BWAHAHAHAHA, Right. That's a good one. Even I could do a better job than Obama.
 
Catawba said:
We get the government we deserve. Our representatives are no better or worse than the people they represent.

Given that, Obama is the best we could hope for.
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What Catawba is trying to say is that the people of USA must really suck balls if Obama is the head of the government we deserve.

If Obama is no better or worse than the people he represents, we all are doomed.
 
Albert Di Salvo said:
*snip*
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Everything you said up until this point in your reply I absolutely agree with, so I won't repost it. . .we're of like minds of many issues. **

Will the Pashtun insurgencies and Al Qaeda claim to to have defeated America? Yes. Will they be right? Probably in the sense they have broken the will of the American peoples. Will Afghanistan and Pakistan be used to plan and implement attacks on the American homeland. Probably. But it doesn't matter as much as the real struggle that must be waged.
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True, they will claim victory. But so did Ramesses II after his defeat by the Hittites. . . But history always reveals the truth and the people who cling to the lie just look foolish, so I'm not worried about that.

What is the real struggle that must be waged? Look at the divisions among the American peoples. Over the course of the last thirty years the bonds uniting us have become attenuated. We are so divided as a people we can't even name the enemy we are supposed to be fighting. Americans will not support war overseas. So they will face war on American soil. They will have no choice, but to fight.
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Our "not in my back yard" attitude is a bit hypocritical and has kept us in a protected bubble for quite some time - attacks on our soil have been sparse in comparison to the massive destrution worldwide during crisis and wartime.
Americans are lucky and we don't even know how lucky we are.

As you may have gathered, I am not an Obama supporter. Since America must withdraw completely from the Af/Pak theater I would like to see the withdrawal used against Obama. Obama's domestic opposition will be able to argue that Obama has led America to military defeat. The charge will be an effective weapon against him. Remember, it was Obama's own man Rahm Emmanuel who said something to the effect that each crisis should be seen as an opportunity, i.e., don't let any crisis go to waste.
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Same here - except I don't want it to be used against him. I don't support him, much, but I never like our presidents being painted negatively. Even if they bring it on theirselves like Bush did.

So, overall, you seem like *you* wouldn't consider *us* to be defeated, but you think that others would feel that way - and that's what you want to avoid.

Putting it that way, I can understand. I don't feel the same way, of course, because it's extremely personal for me . . . but I get your view.

Thanks for taking the time to answer me! I've heard the "pulling out is defeat" alot - but not many have seriously taken the time to explain it, leaving me to question the reasons.
 
EpicDude86 said:
That's a slap in the face to a lot of honest, Patriotic Americans who aren't represented or who get shat upon by their elected official or Government.
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The people have the power to elect whoever they wish, yet we rarely have over half the people voting. If everyone did their duty by voting, the bad actors would be voted out of office. The slap in the face is only half the people voting.

As I said, we get the government we deserve.
 
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Catawba said:
The people have the power to elect whoever they wish, yet we rarely have over half the people voting. If everyone did their duty by voting, the bad actors would be voted out of office. The slap in the face is only half the people voting.

As I said, we get the government we deserve.
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I disagree.

If so many people are *that* unconcerned with politics - then them just going and voting won't mean anything "real" is coming from them through the ballot box. They might be the ones most likely to vote without thought, knowledge or concern and the least bit considerate of their actions.

I at least respect those who vote in opposition of me - as long as they know what they're doing and feel that they're voting justly.

I have no heart for people who do vote and don't know what or who they're voting for.

The biggest thing is that the people who *do* vote do so out of care, consideration and understanding of the issues. So I would rather have only the informed voters votes - and everyone else stay home on election day. . . even if it means that the people voting are only 10% of the population.
 
Catawba said:
The people have the power to elect whoever they wish, yet we rarely have over half the people voting. If everyone did their duty by voting, the bad actors would be voted out of office. The slap in the face is only half the people voting.

As I said, we get the government we deserve.
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If I voted and you did not, then I got the government you deserve.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
I disagree.

If so many people are *that* unconcerned with politics - then them just going and voting won't mean anything "real" is coming from them through the ballot box. They might be the ones most likely to vote without thought, knowledge or concern and the least bit considerate of their actions.

I at least respect those who vote in opposition of me - as long as they know what they're doing and feel that they're voting justly.

I have no heart for people who do vote and don't know what or who they're voting for.

The biggest thing is that the people who *do* vote do so out of care, consideration and understanding of the issues. So I would rather have only the informed voters votes - and everyone else stay home on election day. . . even if it means that the people voting are only 10% of the population.
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I respectfully disagree. Unless everyone votes, we do not have a truly representative government. I consider voting a duty and if it were up to me, I would make it mandatory.

I consider people who do not vote to be shirking their responsibility and give their complaints no credibility.
 
Jerry said:
If I voted and you did not, then I got the government you deserve.
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I have always voted. Never missed an election.
 
Catawba said:
I respectfully disagree. Unless everyone votes, we do not have a truly representative government. I consider voting a duty and if it were up to me, I would make it mandatory.

I consider people who do not vote to be shirking their responsibility and give their complaints no credibility.
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I disagree - I side with our electoral college in this area. A lot of people are idiots and will vote blindly. Maybe they know people, but there's always more than just people to consider when voting - referendums and other such things.
You can't make people care.
You can't make people learn.

I don't like the idea of the ignorant fools leading our country. We should have a voters-competency test given before anyone can vote, honestly.

Part of the reason why many are unconcerned is because there are no standards to meet - just showing up seems to be enough. I feel it's a priveledge you have to earn or at least prove you're capable of handling it, just like driving. It's just that important in my opinion.

Would they give out passing grades to my fellow college students just because they showed up? No, they have to prove their worth before they can pass and be given priveledges because of it.
 
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Aunt Spiker said:
I disagree - I side with our electoral college in this area. A lot of people are idiots and will vote blindly. Maybe they know people, but there's always more than just people to consider when voting - referendums and other such things.
You can't make people care.
You can't make people learn.

I don't like the idea of the ignorant fools leading our country. We should have a voters-competency test given before anyone can vote, honestly.

Part of the reason why many are unconcerned is because there are no standards to meet - just showing up seems to be enough. I feel it's a priveledge you have to earn or at least prove you're capable of handling it, just like driving. It's just that important in my opinion.

Would they give out passing grades to my fellow college students just because they showed up? No, they have to prove their worth before they can pass and be given priveledges because of it.
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The ruling elite, I have heard of this concept. Because they know what's best for us right? ;)
 
Catawba said:
The ruling elite, I have heard of this concept. Because they know what's best for us right? ;)
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You're confusing what she said with Oligarchy.


America's problem is that we give citizenship and rights to everyone without them having to do jack **** to earn them. While it seems like a good idea, it's really kind of backwards.
 
Catawba said:
The ruling elite, I have heard of this concept. Because they know what's best for us right? ;)
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I want the general public who votes to be informed on the issues that they're voting on - not the 'elite' few - but the knowledgable many.

I don't want any "I don't know what that means so I'll vote ___" without any regard for WHAT they just decided on.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
I want the general public who votes to be informed on the issues that they're voting on - not the 'elite' few - but the knowledgable many.

I don't want any "I don't know what that means so I'll vote ___" without any regard for WHAT they just decided on.
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inb4 Jim Crow Laws


that's far too much to ask of the average American citizen!
 
EpicDude86 said:
inb4 Jim Crow Laws


that's far too much to ask of the average American citizen!
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:rofl

Your inb4 is what brought it up - Jim Crow laws were unconstitutional and should never have been put into play to begin with, voter-supported or not.

If someone's going to tell me what to do they better damn know what they're telling me to do and have good reason for it.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
:rofl

Your inb4 is what brought it up - Jim Crow laws were unconstitutional and should never have been put into play to begin with, voter-supported or not.
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haha that's the point of "inb4" It's an internet geek thing...lol But yeah, I know JC laws were just a flat out dick move.

Aunt Spiker said:
If someone's going to tell me what to do they better damn know what they're telling me to do and have good reason for it.
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We have a test for driving, why not one for voting :D They're both just as dangerous if done improperly.
 
EpicDude86 said:
haha that's the point of "inb4" It's an internet geek thing...lol But yeah, I know JC laws were just a flat out dick move.
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LOL - you're such a card

We have a test for driving, why not one for voting :D They're both just as dangerous if done improperly.
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Absolutely!

We have tests for everything we do, really - to get a job you have to qualify, to become a member of the legislature you have to qualify and be approved. In order to become a citizen you have to pass the citizen test.

But everyone can vote no matter what :shrug:

Someone doesn't have to be highly educated, having gone through college to show a interest and knowledge of politics.

If they don't test to permit voting then they should at least make an effort to inform the voter of what will be on the ballot. It's easier, now, because of the net - but years ago I remember wanting ot know what would be on my first ballot and even my parent's didn't know where to point me.

The lack of unbiased information is obnoxious as hell.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
I want the general public who votes to be informed on the issues that they're voting on - not the 'elite' few - but the knowledgable many.

I don't want any "I don't know what that means so I'll vote ___" without any regard for WHAT they just decided on.
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Who decides who's qualified to vote? IMO, that is an elitist concept.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
I want the general public who votes to be informed on the issues that they're voting on - not the 'elite' few - but the knowledgable many.
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I don't believe there is such a thing as the knowledgable many.
 
Catawba said:
Who decides who's qualified to vote? IMO, that is an elitist concept.
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It's actually quite easy. Howard Stern showed us a small example of how we can weed out the complete morons...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyvqhdllXgU"]YouTube- Harlem voters[/ame]
 
EpicDude86 said:
It's actually quite easy. Howard Stern showed us a small example of how we can weed out the complete morons...

YouTube- Harlem voters
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BWUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

....

HEH...

HEHE...

HEHEHE..

BWUAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAA.

ahem..

Sorry about that...
 
EpicDude86 said:
It's actually quite easy. Howard Stern showed us a small example of how we can weed out the complete morons...

YouTube- Harlem voters
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Yeah, Stern makes sense for the fringe's choice for an arbiter of who gets to vote.

Best of luck with that!;)
 
Catawba said:
Yeah, Stern makes sense for the fringe's choice for an arbiter of who gets to vote.

Best of luck with that!;)
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Thanks for looking past the point of the video and attacking a part of the post that has little to do with the truth. Point is, we know morons and uneducated voters exist. There are clear facts that everyone can agree upon and be used to test one's knowledge of an election.

"Majority rule doesn't work in mental institutions."

NoFX "The Idiots are Taking Over" said:
there's no point for democracy when ignorance is celebrated
political scientists get the same one vote as some Arkansas inbred
majority rule, don't work in mental institutions
sometimes the smallest softest voice carries the grand biggest solutions
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And since you're pretty liberal, you might like this [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCz8PNvABO0"]YouTube- NOFX - The Decline #1 High Quality Full Version[/ame] (It's kind of long so I just put the lyrics here if you don't have the time to listen to it or if you don't like punk rock) I'll bold the parts that I like especially.

NoFX said:
Where are all the stupid people from?
And how'd they get to be so dumb?
Bred on purple mountain range
Feed amber waves of grains
To lesser human beings, zero feelings

Blame it on
Human nature, mans destiny (mans destiny)
Blame it on the greediocracy (greediocracy)
Fear of God
The fear of change
The fear of truth

Add the Bill of Rights, subtract the wrongs
There's no answers
Memorize and sing star spangled songs
When the questions
Aren't ever asked
Is anybody learning from the past?
We're living in united stagnation

Father what have I done?
I took that .22
A gift to me from you
To bed with me each night
Kept it clean
Polished it well
Cherished every cartridge, every shell

Down, by the creek, under brush, under dirt
There's a carcass of my second kill
Down, by the park, under stone, under pine
There's a carcass of my brother William
Brother where, have you gone to?
I swear, I never thought I could
I see so many times
They told me to shoot straight
Don't pull the trigger, squeeze
That will insure a kill
A kill is what you want
A kill is why we breed

The Christians love their guns
The church and NRA
Pray for their salvations
Prey on the lower faiths

The story book's been read
And every line believed
Curriculum's been set
Logic is a threat
Reason searched and seized

Jerry spent some time in Michigan
A twenty year vacation, after all he had a dime
A dime is worth a lot more in Detroit
A dime in California, a twenty dollar fine

Jerry only stayed a couple months
It's hard to enjoy yourself while bleeding out the ass
Asphyxiation is simple and fast
It beats seventeen fun years of being someone's bitch

Don't think (Stay)
Drink your wine (Home)
Watch the fire burn (Be)
His problems not mine (Safe)
Just be that model citizen

I wish I had a schilling
(For each senseless killing)
For every senseless killing
I'd buy a government
America's for sale
And you can get a good deal on it
(A good deal on it)
And make a healthy profit
Or maybe, tear it apart
Start with assumption
That a million people are smart
Smarter than one

Serotonin's gone
She gave up, drifted away
Sara fled, thought process gone
She left her answering machine on
The greeting left spoken sincere
Messages no one will ever hear

Ten thousand messages a day
A million more transmissions lay
Victims of the laissez faire
Ten thousand voices, a hundred guns
A hundred decibels turns to one
One bullet, one empty head
Now with Serotonin gone

The man who used to speak
Performs a cute routine
Feel a little patronized
Don't feel bad
They found a way inside your head
And you feel a bit misled
It's not that they don't care, yeah

The television's put a thought inside your head
Like a Barry Manilow, jingle
I'd like, to teach the world to sing
In perfect harmony
A symphonic blank stare, yeah
It doesn't make you care (make you care)
Not designed to make you care (make you care)
They're betting you won't care (you won't...)

Place a wager on your greed
A wager on your pride
Why try to beat them when, a million others tried?

We are the whore
Intellectually spayed
We are the queer
Dysfunctionally raised

One more pill to kill the pain
One more pill to kill the pain
One more pill to kill the pain
Living through conformity

One more prayer to keep me safe
One more prayer to keep us warm
One more prayer to keep us safe
There's gonna be a better place

Lost the battle, lost the war
Lost the things worth living for
Lost the will to win the fight
One more pill to kill the pain

Na na na na na
La na na na na
Na na na na na
Na na na na na

The going get tough, the tough get debt
Don't pay attention, pay the rent
Next of kins pay for your sins
A little faith should keep us safe

Save us
The human, existence
Is failing, resistance
Essential, the future
Written off, the odds are
Astronomically against us
Only moron and genius
Would fight a losing battle
Against the super ego
When giving in is so damn comforting

And so we go, on with our lives
We know the truth, but prefer lies
Lies are simple, simple is bliss
Why go against tradition when we can
Admit defeat, live in decline
Be the victim of our own design
The status quo, built on suspect
Why would anyone stick out their neck?

Fellow members of
Club "We've Got Ours"
I'd like to introduce you to our host
He's got his, and I've got mine
Meet the decline

We are the queer
We are the whore
Ammunition
In the class war
We are worker
We love our queen
We sacrifice
We're soilent green

We are the queer
We are the whore
Ammunition
In the class war
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EpicDude86 said:
"Majority rule doesn't work in mental institutions."
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Dictatorships don't have such a hot track record either.

I think I will stick with the Constitution.
 
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