Envoy urges no US troop increase

Link
BBC NEWS | Americas | Envoy urges no US troop increase

It is not being unpatriotic or disloyal to suggest that the USA along with all it's allies at present within Afghanistan are unable to finally defeat the Taliban.
Afghanistan is ruled by various clans and the National Government has very little sway over these clans.

The idea that the USA and allies can walk in and defeat what is essentially a guerrilla army is simply ludicrous.

These people simply fight in a local area then vanish like will o wisps only to pop up in some other area and start all over again.

To suppose that our gum or candy hand outs will affect any kind of Afghanistani's acceptance of foreign troops on their land is extremely short sighted.

Better by far that we remove ourselves from this country and leave the Taliban to take over if they are the only authority that can run this nation effectively.

Oh, we could do it alright. But we're not allowed.

EpicDude86 said:

Oh, we could do it alright. But we're not allowed.

Click to expand...

I don't know about 'allowed'... let's ask some serious questions here :

Like : Why under US / Nato supervision has there been 3 years of cumulative record poppy production in afghanistan?

Why would Russia previously want to invade Afghanistan?? Is it cause they liked the beaches, or do you figure they wanted to control the poppy fields?

50 billion dollars a year bets that heroin is a motivating factor in the continuation of this war in afghanistan.

BmanMcfly said:

I don't know about 'allowed'... let's ask some serious questions here :

Like : Why under US / Nato supervision has there been 3 years of cumulative record poppy production in afghanistan?

Why would Russia previously want to invade Afghanistan?? Is it cause they liked the beaches, or do you figure they wanted to control the poppy fields?

50 billion dollars a year bets that heroin is a motivating factor in the continuation of this war in afghanistan.

Click to expand...

I've always thought it was the poppy fields too. lol, I thought I was just being ridiculous as always...

And we could possibly blow Afghanistan off the face of the map, unfortunately the fallout would piss off every other nation in Southern/Southeaster Asia.

EpicDude86 said:

I've always thought it was the poppy fields too. lol, I thought I was just being ridiculous as always...

And we could possibly blow Afghanistan off the face of the map, unfortunately the fallout would piss off every other nation in Southern/Southeaster Asia.

Click to expand...

Well, the 50 billion dollars gets laundered through various banking connections no doubt... and bankers have this ability to create 10X the money they have in store. So, this 50Billion turns into 500 BILLION of black funds that have no need of congressional approuval to be spent... where else would you expect the 'black budget' to come from?? It's not like they ask congress : hey, we got this program that's super-secret, and we need 500 billion dollars, no questions asked that'll never be repayed... please??

Hmmmmmm you make an interesting point...but somehow I don't know...

EpicDude86 said:

Hmmmmmm you make an interesting point...but somehow I don't know...

Click to expand...

That's fair... the poppy situation in afghanistan is bad enough as it is anyway.

Not about to do the searches again, but if you're interested search the opium statistics from afghanistan in 2006-2008 (Ie : 2006 record crops, 2007 NEW record crops, 2008 13 TIMES the previous record crop). There are also several BBC articles discussing why US / NATO troops MUST guard the poppies 'or else the taliban will take control of them'.

BmanMcfly said:

That's fair... the poppy situation in afghanistan is bad enough as it is anyway.

Not about to do the searches again, but if you're interested search the opium statistics from afghanistan in 2006-2008 (Ie : 2006 record crops, 2007 NEW record crops, 2008 13 TIMES the previous record crop). There are also several BBC articles discussing why US / NATO troops MUST guard the poppies 'or else the taliban will take control of them'.

Click to expand...

haha I have, I used similar stats to debate with a friend 2 weeks ago. I had a feeling a few years into the Afghanistan war when I began reading up on the smuggling routes and the trade. It's quite an interesting little economy.

BmanMcfly said:

Well, the 50 billion dollars gets laundered through various banking connections no doubt... and bankers have this ability to create 10X the money they have in store. So, this 50Billion turns into 500 BILLION of black funds that have no need of congressional approuval to be spent... where else would you expect the 'black budget' to come from?? It's not like they ask congress : hey, we got this program that's super-secret, and we need 500 billion dollars, no questions asked that'll never be repayed... please??

Click to expand...

So the government invades Afghanistan to secure $50 billion worth of poppy seeds, which the bankers then run through their magic 10X money multiplier and turn into $500 billion?

Setting aside the hilarity of your claim that "bankers" can just manufacture money, the entire Taliban was only able to earn approx $100m a year for each of the past few years in taxation/tribute payments from the poppy growers. I doubt the US would be doing much better, even if we had this massive drug growing conspiracy that you're going on about.

BmanMcfly said:

Not about to do the searches again, but if you're interested search the opium statistics from afghanistan in 2006-2008 (Ie : 2006 record crops, 2007 NEW record crops, 2008 13 TIMES the previous record crop).

Click to expand...

And now you're just plain lying:

That's a **** ton of opium! I want in on that!!!

RightinNYC said:

And now you're just plain lying:

Click to expand...

Sorry, just wrong... the years were 2005 - 2007. Not 2006-2008...

Notice in that graph though how the 'taliban controlled' numbers are dwarfed by the 'US controlled'??

As for the previous post : YES, this is the case... it's called 'fractional reserve' banking. What this means is that for every dollar in 'reserve' (Ie : your savings accounts, bank controlled investments, etc) they can loan out 10X that amount.

As for the exact amount of money... if it's 500 million -> 5 billion or whatever... don't take a misstatement as intentional lying.. you're own graph shows the situation quite clearly...

Afghanistan / taliban bans poppy production... the year of near 0 production the US army shows up (for Obl, naturally) the following year it's returned to 'normal' and increased each year for four of the next 5 years (with the one year of slight decrease still being larger then any crops under Taliban rule).

Though your graph shows yet another level of 'illogic' of the afghan war position : BBC has articles saying that if the crops are not protected by the US, then the Taliban will retake control when the taliban wanted to stop poppy production.

Although a drug cartel would be some sort of 'conspiracy, it's not unprecedented... I mean FBI / CIA has been repeatedly caught smuggling drugs into the US, so why would you think that elements of the government would NOT be interested in control of heroin production as well?

BmanMcfly said:

Sorry, just wrong... the years were 2005 - 2007. Not 2006-2008...

Click to expand...

8,000 is not 13*6,000. Your claim is still false.

Notice in that graph though how the 'taliban controlled' numbers are dwarfed by the 'US controlled'??

Click to expand...

Yes, but I'm not sure what you think that proves. If we lived in a police state where anyone who broke the law would be summarily executed, I bet we could cut the rate of tax evasion to almost nothing. If the police state was removed from power and there was a vacuum of control, I bet the rate of tax evasion would skyrocket. That does not prove that one is better than the other.

As for the previous post : YES, this is the case... it's called 'fractional reserve' banking. What this means is that for every dollar in 'reserve' (Ie : your savings accounts, bank controlled investments, etc) they can loan out 10X that amount.

Click to expand...

That's not "creating money."

As for the exact amount of money... if it's 500 million -> 5 billion or whatever... don't take a misstatement as intentional lying.. you're own graph shows the situation quite clearly...

Afghanistan / taliban bans poppy production... the year of near 0 production the US army shows up (for Obl, naturally) the following year it's returned to 'normal' and increased each year for four of the next 5 years (with the one year of slight decrease still being larger then any crops under Taliban rule).

Click to expand...

And again, it's rather simplistic to try to use the fact that poppy production increased as proof for your wild conspiracy theories.

Though your graph shows yet another level of 'illogic' of the afghan war position : BBC has articles saying that if the crops are not protected by the US, then the Taliban will retake control when the taliban wanted to stop poppy production.

Although a drug cartel would be some sort of 'conspiracy, it's not unprecedented... I mean FBI / CIA has been repeatedly caught smuggling drugs into the US, so why would you think that elements of the government would NOT be interested in control of heroin production as well?

Click to expand...

If you want to push your conspiracy theories, we have an entire forum for that. There's no need to keep bringing them up in other threads.

The US could probably just buy the entire opium crop off from the afghan farmers, and kill multiple birds with one stone.

Afghan people make a living, and peasants/farmers, tribal leaders ect. gain some loyalty and vested interest in the presence of the US , instead of to the Taliban.

Black market supplies dwindle drastically (honestly IMO this is not a favorable outcome as a whole, but as a selling point it is very favorable). As a result organized crime is disrupted substantially, they will need to find supplies from countries we are NOT occupying, so Heroin addicts are not funding the Taliban

This is probably less expensive than sending troops, not to mention the savings in human lives to be had.

Of course there is another side effect.. a ton of opiates to be had.. CHEAP, meaning plenty of opium derivative medications available.. even previously short supplied third world countries could get quality pain killers.

But of course it would never happen.. too bad, it would be a sensible solution to numerous problems at once, and could turn the tide in this quagmire. (and yes I know there are other problems to be had with the world wide community at large as well over this, but nothing insurmountable).

RightinNYC said:

That's not "creating money."

Click to expand...

Ok, I have 10$ to my name... and I give you a LOAN for 100$ using my 10$ to vouch that I have the 100$. This person takes that loan and goes and buys himself a 100$ baseball card collection, gives the person a cheque, which gets cashed at a different bank... when they call you look 'ok, I got 10$ to my name so that 100$ loan cheque is certified' there's 90$ in that mix that was never printed, did not exist in anyones account, but is useable like hard currency...

Are you using a different definition for 'creating' money?

And again, it's rather simplistic to try to use the fact that poppy production increased as proof for your wild conspiracy theories.

Click to expand...

Oh no, I believe the BBC article where we must protect the poppy fields or else those that banned poppy fields would take control and if they take control we all know something bad will happen (like possibly destroying the poppy fields again)

My 'wild' conspiracy theory where I said that the poppies were a 'factor'??

If you want to push your conspiracy theories, we have an entire forum for that. There's no need to keep bringing them up in other threads.

Click to expand...

Yes, we've already established that Reuters is a conspiracy theory, I take it that now 'bbc' is a conspiracy theorist as well?? Next it'll be Fox and CNN??