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Thread: Official: Obama wants his war options changed

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    Re: Official: Obama wants his war options changed

    Quote Originally Posted by SgtRock View Post
    You just pointed out the problem without realizing it. Why does the Taliban have a sanctuary? We have got to put pressure on Pakistan to eliminate the Taliban from within thier borders. There should be no rest for them, only death.
    I TOTALLY agree. I've been saying it since I got here to DP. That and the corrupt Afghan government are the two big challenges.

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    Re: Official: Obama wants his war options changed

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Bush did the same thing when he decided on the surge and COIN strategy. He took charge as well. Give credit where credit is due.
    Bush made decisions from his gut. He didn't accept advice, and didn't examine options or consider consequences. No credit is due to Bush or his disastrous command decisions.

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    Re: Official: Obama wants his war options changed

    Quote Originally Posted by SgtRock View Post
    Here is my take on the situation. More than enough time to make a decission has expired. President Obama refuses to give the generals the troops they have requested. He is just as spineless as a president as he was as a senator. In the mean time our troops are paying the price for Obama's indecission. Either give the Generals the troops they have requested or get out of Afghanistan. Obamas half stepping is getting our guys killed.
    You must understand that generals have only one priority, prosecuting the conflict. They are unable to balance the cost of conflict over national priorities. No disrespect intended, but the military is like an attack dog. When you tell it to attack it will not stop, and (if it could) would report that victory is at hand, it just needs more time. That's why we don't let generals have the last word on war, they will always choose conflict over other options.

    By the way, our troops are not getting killed waiting for Obama's decision. They are fighting the war the same way they have for eight years. They do not become more vulnerable because a new strategy is being discussed.

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    Re: Official: Obama wants his war options changed

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    Bush made decisions from his gut. He didn't accept advice, and didn't examine options or consider consequences. No credit is due to Bush or his disastrous command decisions.
    Bollocks!!

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    Re: Official: Obama wants his war options changed

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    Bush made decisions from his gut. He didn't accept advice, and didn't examine options or consider consequences. No credit is due to Bush or his disastrous command decisions.
    Really? Because for 8 years all we heard was the Cheney pulled the puppet strings. It's almost odd at this point to hear you say otherwise.

    Topic? While I can appreciate a president exploring options, good leadership calls for decisive and sometimes swift action. If Obama was this unsure of the situation, he should have made that a bit clearer on the campaign trail instead of presenting himself as the man with the answers.
    Quote Originally Posted by soccerboy22 View Post
    You guys are weird.

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    Re: Official: Obama wants his war options changed

    i say good. he has time to fully think through our direction, and not throw additional troops into harm's way just because he can.

    i like that he's pushing back against an open ended commitment.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Official: Obama wants his war options changed

    Quote Originally Posted by StandUpChuck View Post
    Really? Because for 8 years all we heard was the Cheney pulled the puppet strings. It's almost odd at this point to hear you say otherwise.

    Topic? While I can appreciate a president exploring options, good leadership calls for decisive and sometimes swift action. If Obama was this unsure of the situation, he should have made that a bit clearer on the campaign trail instead of presenting himself as the man with the answers.
    the situation in afghanistan is fluid. the climate was very different in 2008 when obama was campaigning.

    obama has time. troops couldn't get there until 2010 anyway.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Official: Obama wants his war options changed

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Bush did the same thing when he decided on the surge and COIN strategy. He took charge as well. Give credit where credit is due.
    Credit is not due to Bush for the Surge and COIN implementation. He had to be convinced of it, by many people, but namely Kagan and GEN Keane. Bush's plan for Iraq was to stick with Casey and "stay the course". Kagan and Keane's influence in Cheney's office got this ball rolling. It was AEI's plan that they were finally able to convince Bush to adopt. The JCS were firmly against troop increases, as was Bush, who kept repeating the he "takes advice from Generals on the ground", presumably Casey and Abizaid, who were both opposed to troop increases. Odierno comes in and gets on board as the future MNC-I commander, and then Petraeus.

    Read "The Gamble" by Tom Ricks, who lays this all out quite nicely.

    Also, watch this Charlie Rose interview with Ricks:

    Charlie Rose & Tom Ricks - The Surge
    Last edited by kansaswhig; 11-12-09 at 10:20 AM.

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    Re: Official: Obama wants his war options changed

    Quote Originally Posted by kansaswhig View Post
    Credit is not due to Bush for the Surge and COIN implementation. He had to be convinced of it, by many people, but namely Kagan and GEN Keane. Bush's plan for Iraq was to stick with Casey and "stay the course". Kagan and Keane's influence in Cheney's office got this ball rolling. It was AEI's plan that they were finally able to convince Bush to adopt. The JCS were firmly against troop increases, as was Bush, who kept repeating the he "takes advice from Generals on the ground", presumably Casey and Abizaid, who were both opposed to troop increases. Odierno comes in and gets on board as the future MNC-I commander, and then Petraeus.

    Read "The Gamble" by Tom Ricks, who lays this all out quite nicely.

    Also, watch this Charlie Rose interview with Ricks:

    Charlie Rose & Tom Ricks - The Surge
    I've read that book. Great book. I credit it with breaking my optimism that Iraqis will reconcile. I also love Charlie Rose, a very deep interviewer. I'll make sure to watch this link. Thanks!

    I recall that it was Kagan's and Keane's and AEI that got them in front of Cheney and then to Bush. Bush DID decide to go against the Rumsfeld, JCS and Chain of Command, which he had been listening to for 5 years, but with help from Cheney, Kagan and Keane. Not in a vacuum. That was a pretty big change in direction for him to take, but things were obviously in meltdown. Credit, not all credit, goes to Bush as the CinC that decides. He at least got to listen to an alternative.

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    Re: Official: Obama wants his war options changed

    The part that is so infuriating to me is the advice that the Generals on the ground were giving Bush. They were the ones that were against COIN and advising him to accelerate the turn over of responsibility to the Iraqis. "As they stand up, we'll stand down". Even in the midst of increasing casualties from the growing civil war. It wasn't working but they weren't questioning their strategy. And so they were giving Bush bad advice.

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