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Thread: Official: Obama wants his war options changed

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    Re: Official: Obama wants his war options changed

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    There are so many ways you could take this.
    I think one of them is going to be right in the ass, by way of the wallet...




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    Re: Official: Obama wants his war options changed

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    I think one of them is going to be right in the ass, by way of the wallet...



    With an infected, smelly, rusty rod... ohne Kondom.

    Enjoy America. This is what you voted for.

    Change.

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    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Re: Official: Obama wants his war options changed

    msnbc's way too early with willie geist just reported senior administration officials have divulged that obama has rejected every option for afghanistan so far presented to him in those eight somber and serious meetings he's held around that crowded conference table, each of which made for great news copy

    this, after all last week the white house leaked it was now leaning towards sending some 34000 additional warriors to the theater

    meanwhile, ambassador to afghanistan karl eikenberry came out publicly yesterday calling for zero reinforcements for our overplied forces in the mountains on the moon

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/12/us...y.html?_r=2&hp

    the ditherer's petal pulling approach---i'll send more troops, i'll send more troops not---has apparently resulted in a daisy suddenly denuded of leaves

    he has no clue what he's doing, he's only there because he campaigned so hard on the region as the "right war"

    our troops are being sacrificed to provide political cover for obama's skinny butt and for no other reason

    obama WANTS OUT, everyone knows it

    but he's chicken livered

    so he dithers while soldiers die in record numbers

    afghanistan is killing this president

    and it's going to get a lot worse, even if/when he does pull out

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    Re: Official: Obama wants his war options changed

    I believe Ambassador Eikenberry is raising urgent and relevant questions.

    Although I agree that additional manpower is needed, I believe a full discussion needs to examine, among other things, the past experiences concerning Czarist, British, and Soviet forces in Afghanistan, the failure of earlier "surges" to bring about a stable outcome, and Afghanistan's historically decentralized framework in which tribal leaders/local institutions play a larger role than its central government. Former Soviet President Gorbachev's warning, while unpleasant, goes to the heart of the convergence of Afghanstan's history and lack of governance structure. The Soviets had much greater manpower and much freer operating constraints and still failed to pacify Afghanistan.

    Currently, Kabul is defined by corruption, cronyism, and incompetence, if not leadership that may not adequately represent all of Afghanistan's various ethnic or tribal groups. Afghanistan remains closer to a failed state than a viable national unit. The leadership issue is one that the military planners need to address. In the wake of previous failed strategies, they have a genuine burden to address the issues as to why the previous troop surges in Afghanistan, including one from earlier this year, proved ineffective, why their earlier plans failed to foresee how events unfolded to date, why one should have confidence that the outcome this time around will be different given Afghanistan's historic experience and current dynamics. They need to identify who specifically will be the key tribal leaders whose efforts will be leveraged in implementing the plan and how reliable have they been in the past. They need to identify what local institutions will be relied upon to complement the efforts of the additional troops, among others.

    The historic experience, failure of earlier troop surges, and, arguably worst of all, previous strategies' failure to come close to anticipating the overall evolution of events does not inspire much confidence. Neither do the realities associated with failed or failing states. As a result, difficult questions need to be raised and addressed.

    The assumptions on which the strategy is based must fit reality. Those assumptions need to be sober, not excessively optimistic. The new strategy cannot simply be a "patch" that changes one or two variables but does not fit the current environment nor address issues raised by the historic and recent experience, otherwise it will rapidly become obsolete well short of achieving its goals as happened with the previous strategies. It also needs to specifically identify and address a wide range of contingencies.

    Experience with failing or failed states with a history of highly fragmented leadership/multiplicity of tribal leaders with widely varied interests e.g., Somalia, illustrate the enormous difficulties involved in Afghanistan. Historic and recent experience in Afghanistan demonstrate the reality of those difficulties.

    In the end, it seems to me that Ambassador Eikenberry is asking the difficult questions that need to be asked. It would be prudent for the President to give those questions and issues a thorough review in the planning exercise, even if the exercise requires some additional time.

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    Re: Official: Obama wants his war options changed

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    The historic experience, failure of earlier troop surges, and, arguably worst of all, previous strategies' failure to come close to anticipating the overall evolution of events does not inspire much confidence. Neither do the realities associated with failed or failing states. As a result, difficult questions need to be raised and addressed.
    This latest surge, last spring, included a significant strategy change, along the lines of the change that occurred when the Iraqi surge was implemented. We switched to a full COIN strategy, and US forces (perhaps other NATO forces) changed posture out of FOBs and into outposts. The casualty rate increased.

    I was going to point out a province that had seen an increase in troop strength and a corresponding decrease in Taliban attacks and that things looked like they were turning around. I found this article, which isn't nearly as rosy as the article I had originally read several weeks back: Zabul moves front and center in fight against the Taliban | Stars and Stripes.

    I recall that in the initial stages of the Iraqi surge, we didn't get that much help for similar reasons, but the longer we stayed the more intel we got. I wonder if that is the case in Afghanistan. It may well be if we had enough forces to really do COIN. If the central government is our partner...It seems the core problem is that there isn't a credible replacement for the Taliban.

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    In the end, it seems to me that Ambassador Eikenberry is asking the difficult questions that need to be asked. It would be prudent for the President to give those questions and issues a thorough review in the planning exercise, even if the exercise requires some additional time.
    I agree. It is a failing state with no central control over the provinces and the enemy has a sanctuary.
    Last edited by reefedjib; 11-12-09 at 08:50 AM.

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    Re: Official: Obama wants his war options changed

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    With an infected, smelly, rusty rod... ohne Kondom.

    Enjoy America. This is what you voted for.

    Change.

    .
    Exactly. We finally have a president intelligent enough to listen to his advisors and take charge when he doesn't like the options. I am enjoying the change.

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    Re: Official: Obama wants his war options changed

    Here is my take on the situation. More than enough time to make a decission has expired. President Obama refuses to give the generals the troops they have requested. He is just as spineless as a president as he was as a senator. In the mean time our troops are paying the price for Obama's indecission. Either give the Generals the troops they have requested or get out of Afghanistan. Obamas half stepping is getting our guys killed.
    When America is strong the world is calm, When America is weak tyrants and terrorist slaughter the meek. ~ SgtRock

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    Re: Official: Obama wants his war options changed

    Quote Originally Posted by SgtRock View Post
    Here is my take on the situation. More than enough time to make a decission has expired. President Obama refuses to give the generals the troops they have requested. He is just as spineless as a president as he was as a senator. In the mean time our troops are paying the price for Obama's indecission. Either give the Generals the troops they have requested or get out of Afghanistan. Obamas half stepping is getting our guys killed.
    Rock, he has time. The snows are in the Kush and all activity is winding down as the Taliban go to their sanctuary. No ops on our side in the mountains. The first unit to go to AFG will leave in Feb I think, so he has weeks to make up his mind.

    Bush took months as well.

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    Re: Official: Obama wants his war options changed

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    Exactly. We finally have a president intelligent enough to listen to his advisors and take charge when he doesn't like the options. I am enjoying the change.
    Bush did the same thing when he decided on the surge and COIN strategy. He took charge as well. Give credit where credit is due.

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    Re: Official: Obama wants his war options changed

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Rock, he has time. The snows are in the Kush and all activity is winding down as the Taliban go to their sanctuary. No ops on our side in the mountains. The first unit to go to AFG will leave in Feb I think, so he has weeks to make up his mind.

    Bush took months as well.
    You just pointed out the problem without realizing it. Why does the Taliban have a sanctuary? We have got to put pressure on Pakistan to eliminate the Taliban from within thier borders. There should be no rest for them, only death.
    When America is strong the world is calm, When America is weak tyrants and terrorist slaughter the meek. ~ SgtRock

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