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Thread: Blackwater Said to Pursue Bribes to Iraq After 17 Died

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    Re: Blackwater Said to Pursue Bribes to Iraq After 17 Died

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    Yes, it is one example. one BAD example, amidst quite a few GOOD ones. we have to take the good with the bad, not just look at the negatives to make our judgements.

    Mercenaries and Private Contractors are necessary unless you'd like to see your taxes go up. And thanks to the Anti-Pinkerton act you don't have to worry about being double-blasted with the price of these contractors anyways. It is cheaper in the long run to pay private contractors than to maintain and regulate, or even restrict, our National forces with these tasks and rules. They may be seen as 'bad' to some people, but they're more a necessary evil at worst and a saving grace at best.
    Why would our taxes go up, we pay more for contractors than we pay the military? How can it possibly be cheaper to use them? Also, contractors are not sworn to protect and serve the nation, their performance is totally related to profit.

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    Re: Blackwater Said to Pursue Bribes to Iraq After 17 Died

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    Why would our taxes go up, we pay more for contractors than we pay the military? How can it possibly be cheaper to use them? Also, contractors are not sworn to protect and serve the nation, their performance is totally related to profit.
    Read up on the history of Private Contractors and how they get paid. It's actually cheaper, and has always been, to hire outside contractors who deal with training and administration, rather than create entire new divisions within the gov't creating a larger bureaucracy and more red-tape. I know it's not all that relevant to the discussion, but prior to the FBI, the DoJ's budget didn't leave it much room to pursue criminals across the Nation, especially in the wild west, so they called in private contractors to get the job done closer to budget, and saving man hours, instead of trying to create entirely new departments. I'm not saying their salaries are entirely justified, but if you look how much money goes to other things compared to contractors, they are just a smidgen of government spending. Especially with the passage of these crappy stimulus acts. (From both Presidencies.)


    The loyalty thing might be an issue to you, but in general we hire our contractors in country, and the guys that work for those companies are gung-ho nationalists with a point to prove. No worries about wavering loyalty there. I'd be more concerned with them killing the right people than I would them turning on the country, which you could say is the current issue with more private contractors.
    Last edited by EpicDude86; 11-23-09 at 05:22 PM.

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    Re: Blackwater Said to Pursue Bribes to Iraq After 17 Died

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    Why would our taxes go up, we pay more for contractors than we pay the military? How can it possibly be cheaper to use them? Also, contractors are not sworn to protect and serve the nation, their performance is totally related to profit.
    Another reason I say anytime we go to war, a draft should automatically kick in. When we privatize our armies, there's not enough real American skin in the game. In WW2 we turned citizens into soldiers and completely defeated Germany and Japan in three years, and then everybody returned home.

    With Blackwater and other contracters making up half our forces, they quit making profits when the wars stop; so now we've been in two wars headed for a decade with no end in sight.

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    Re: Blackwater Said to Pursue Bribes to Iraq After 17 Died

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    It's actually cheaper, and has always been, to hire outside contractors who deal with training and administration.
    No it's not, but I'd like to see your proof.

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    Re: Blackwater Said to Pursue Bribes to Iraq After 17 Died

    I jumped the gun when I said 'always'. Sorry, what I should have said is that the use of private contractors as opposed to running things "in-house" saves money on training, operations costs, and administration of the contractors. I said before it doesn't justify their massive salaries, but clearly the private sector is more efficient than the government when it comes to running certain things. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have seen a change in the face of Private Contracting for sure and yeah they are paid a **** ton NOW, but what I'm trying to say is that private companies have the advantage of being (and really should be) cheaper than the government running things because these private companies prevent the government from having to create more bureaucracy and monitor more people and supplies.


    And, I think Private Contracts (non-classified anyways) account for about 18% of the DoD's budget. I don't think that's counting other agencies' or branch's contracts as well. While that seems a sizeable chunk, more is (and or can be) getting done using a smaller chunk-o-change.


    There's evidence supporting and negating my claims in here but at least it's the CBO. Not that it makes this data any more useful or less useful.
    http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/96xx/doc9...ontractors.pdf

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    Re: Blackwater Said to Pursue Bribes to Iraq After 17 Died

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    Why would our taxes go up, we pay more for contractors than we pay the military? How can it possibly be cheaper to use them? Also, contractors are not sworn to protect and serve the nation, their performance is totally related to profit.


    We pay a percentage of what it would cost to have the .mil do the same job. Theres more of that ingnorance onyour part.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Blackwater Said to Pursue Bribes to Iraq After 17 Died

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    We pay a percentage of what it would cost to have the .mil do the same job. Theres more of that ingnorance onyour part.
    Go play with yourself boy, there's adults trying to have a conversation here

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    Re: Blackwater Said to Pursue Bribes to Iraq After 17 Died

    Joe has a point in that, a contractor has no incentive to win a war, to see it end, and consequently may find ways to keep the conflict going. The other big point I see has not yet been addressed which is, who is accountable when a contractor kills civilians? So far, as seen in Iraq, no one is even legally able to prosecute contractors whose employees massacre civilians.

    Also, about the overhead, seems to me that American tax dollars would be paying every penny of the maintenance of contractors, plus the profit. When the military is paid, there is no profit factored in. I assume a contractor force nets at least 40% profit?

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    Re: Blackwater Said to Pursue Bribes to Iraq After 17 Died

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe1991 View Post
    Another reason I say anytime we go to war, a draft should automatically kick in. When we privatize our armies, there's not enough real American skin in the game. In WW2 we turned citizens into soldiers and completely defeated Germany and Japan in three years, and then everybody returned home.

    With Blackwater and other contracters making up half our forces, they quit making profits when the wars stop; so now we've been in two wars headed for a decade with no end in sight.
    Eh, If the people want to go to war, then Drafting is aiiiight.

    The Problems with drafting that I would be wary of would be:
    1) draft dodgers putting a strain on the Justice System (especially since nationalism has gone down and "dissent is patriotic" emotion has gone up)
    2) Could find a large number of 'conscientious objectors' doing nothing combat related but still getting the base pay grade prior to going C.O.

    Forcing people to do something is not always the best route, it's best to rely on the volunteers first, then those loyal to the money, and if you get down to having to use those who don't want to fight, you're doomed anyways.

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    Re: Blackwater Said to Pursue Bribes to Iraq After 17 Died

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    What the hell does Blackwater do that the military can't?
    Drive these:

    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

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