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Thread: D.C. Sniper John Allen Muhammad Is Executed in Virginia

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    Re: D.C. Sniper John Allen Muhammad Is Executed in Virginia

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    You can't expect to do a "fair" and "balanced" scientific study if one of your dependent variables is race, especially in dealing with prison population and the death penalty, and which race did the perpetrating and which was the victim.
    No I'm asking what evidence you have for the claim that it is fairly applied. If we just have some statistics to weigh against no evidence, even if the statistics might potentially be innaccurate, that's still better than no evidence at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    I know you're not saying more black people do. Well there's a reason for that and it's because blacks are disproportionately represented in the system. Not because they're black but because that's just who is committing more crimes.
    About 2/3 of crimes in the country are committed by whites. Roughtly in line with the portion of the country that is white. Statistically blacks do commit slightly more crime per capita, but way less total.

    But, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying the PERCENTAGE of people convicted who are then given the death penalty is way higher amongst blacks than whites. So how many crimes they commit isn't part of that equation.

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    Re: D.C. Sniper John Allen Muhammad Is Executed in Virginia

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    No I'm asking what evidence you have for the claim that it is fairly applied. If we just have some statistics to weigh against no evidence, even if the statistics might potentially be innaccurate, that's still better than no evidence at all.
    Innacurate statstics are more dangerous than no evidence at all. Would you rather have inaccurate data about that Hasan character or no evidence about him? Prosecution of crimes, and analyzing the Criminal Justice system, cannot rely on inaccurate statistics. If it does the very foundation of Justice goes right out the window. This is why we have those laws that more often help criminal offenders walk so that once in a while it saves the Honest Man's ass.

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    About 2/3 of crimes in the country are committed by whites. Roughtly in line with the portion of the country that is white. Statistically blacks do commit slightly more crime per capita, but way less total.

    But, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying the PERCENTAGE of people convicted who are then given the death penalty is way higher amongst blacks than whites. So how many crimes they commit isn't part of that equation.
    Bureau of Justice Statistics Key Crime and Justice Facts at a Glance

    Make your own conclusions from real statistics, not some College study that picks and chooses which bits of data to use and exclude. Keep in mind there is no percentage quota, or acceptable level of sentences. The Justice System is blind for the most part, regardless of what you may like to think, or have been shown by media outlets and the like.

    Last edited by EpicDude86; 11-11-09 at 10:42 PM.

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    Re: D.C. Sniper John Allen Muhammad Is Executed in Virginia

    Those stats are about prison populations. Keep those in context. Here is something to consider. Only 36% of the prison population is white, but 69% of people arrested are white.

    That doesn't neccesarily indicate that the judicial system is rife with racists. Blacks tend to be poorer and hence less likely to be able to cover bail or get high end attorneys, but no matter what the motive is, it means looking at prison population statistics is a bad way to estimate levels of crime in a community.

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    The Justice System is blind for the most part, regardless of what you may like to think, or have been shown by media outlets and the like.
    Keep in mind I'm not just talking about racial bias, but all kinds of factors that can bias a jury. For example, say that two people commit the same murder. One of them is a white woman who works at an office, looks vaguely like your third grade teacher, has the social acumen to know how to look ashamed of what she did and cry at the right times and can be downright charming. The other defendant is a 300 pound unemployed black guy with facial tatoos who is just above the line for mental retardation, who lacks the social skills to respond appropriately in court, and who reminds people of some character from Oz. Do you really believe juries would be equally likely to give each of them the death penalty?

    The death penalty is applied only in cases where the jury feels that the defendant meets some kind of subjective standard for having committed an especially heinous type of murder. IMO life and death should not hang on such a subjective standard.

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    Re: D.C. Sniper John Allen Muhammad Is Executed in Virginia

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Those stats are about prison populations. Keep those in context. Here is something to consider. Only 36% of the prison population is white, but 69% of people arrested are white.

    That doesn't neccesarily indicate that the judicial system is rife with racists. Blacks tend to be poorer and hence less likely to be able to cover bail or get high end attorneys, but no matter what the motive is, it means looking at prison population statistics is a bad way to estimate levels of crime in a community.

    Keep in mind I'm not just talking about racial bias, but all kinds of factors that can bias a jury. For example, say that two people commit the same murder. One of them is a white woman who works at an office, looks vaguely like your third grade teacher, has the social acumen to know how to look ashamed of what she did and cry at the right times and can be downright charming. The other defendant is a 300 pound unemployed black guy with facial tatoos who is just above the line for mental retardation, who lacks the social skills to respond appropriately in court, and who reminds people of some character from Oz. Do you really believe juries would be equally likely to give each of them the death penalty?

    The death penalty is applied only in cases where the jury feels that the defendant meets some kind of subjective standard for having committed an especially heinous type of murder. IMO life and death should not hang on such a subjective standard.
    Ironically enough, I copped out and posted that link. I spent most of my time trying to re-find all the data I had used in a Criminology presentation, but I couldn't get enough data so I stopped trying. The point of the presentation was that every single little factor counts when dealing with the prison system. Just looking at numbers doesn't tell you anything. Just because Blacks are misrepresented in prison doesn't mean the system is racist, etc.

    I just got tired of trying to re-create a 10 page paper and a 15 slide powerpoint's worth of data.

    We seem to be in almost complete agreement, I think.

    Also, if you look at Death Penalty cases since the lat 80's, I mean the case files specifically, you'll find that many of them we're either upsets on "Sure things" or on the flip side they we're good convictions on bad people.
    Last edited by EpicDude86; 11-12-09 at 12:03 AM.

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    Re: D.C. Sniper John Allen Muhammad Is Executed in Virginia

    Nothing but a bunch of keystone cops after him. The idiots never checked out a rest area right near where they thought he was. Some guy saw the number plate and called it in and thats how they got them.
    -
    How is it possible in this age of knowledge for not one cop, FBI or other never checked out the rest area right under their noses?
    Mommy I am only 10 years old and I was surprised to kick the ass of that Pussy. Son that Pussy didn't listen to S.S.1

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    Re: D.C. Sniper John Allen Muhammad Is Executed in Virginia

    Quote Originally Posted by Sergeant Stinger1 View Post
    Nothing but a bunch of keystone cops after him. The idiots never checked out a rest area right near where they thought he was. Some guy saw the number plate and called it in and thats how they got them.
    -
    How is it possible in this age of knowledge for not one cop, FBI or other never checked out the rest area right under their noses?
    Which rest area was it?

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    Re: D.C. Sniper John Allen Muhammad Is Executed in Virginia

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    Which rest area was it?
    -
    I have no idea but it was shown on TV saying where he was spotted and it was in the vicinity of the areas that were being searched. Later some said that they saw the vehicle there the day before they announced the discription and # plate but thought nothing about it.
    Mommy I am only 10 years old and I was surprised to kick the ass of that Pussy. Son that Pussy didn't listen to S.S.1

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    Re: D.C. Sniper John Allen Muhammad Is Executed in Virginia

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    Which rest area was it?
    Google says Meyersville, MD rest stop. 50 miles NW of DC.

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