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Thread: Thousands cheer 20 years since fall of Berlin Wall

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    Thousands cheer 20 years since fall of Berlin Wall

    Thousands cheer 20 years since fall of Berlin Wall - Yahoo! News

    By MELISSA EDDY and KIRSTEN GRIESHABER, Associated Press Writers Melissa Eddy And Kirsten Grieshaber, Associated Press Writers Mon Nov 9, 6:20 pm ET
    BERLIN Ulrich Sauff and his wife stared at the mammoth domino pieces marking the path where the Berlin Wall once stood and reminisced about life in the barrier's shadow.

    "It was like a prison," said Mr. Sauff, 73, who lived on the Western side of the wall. "For us 'Wessis,' the few kilometers from our old home to our new home (in the East) was unthinkable."

    The Sauffs were among those who gathered Monday to celebrate 20 years of unity, marking the day the wall came down. Thousands cheered as 1,000 colorfully decorated dominoes along a mile-long route were toppled to symbolize both the moment the wall came crashing down and the resulting fall of communist countries in Eastern Europe.

    It was the finale to a day of memorial services, speeches and events that attracted leaders from around the world, including former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev.

    Merkel and 78-year-old Gorbachev stood shoulder to shoulder as they crossed a former fortified border crossing point between East and West Berlin to cheers of "Gorby! Gorby!" bring this up to the first reference to gorby.
    Hard to believe it was twenty years ago. But there are two things harder to believe for me.
    1. Is that as Gorbachev was hailed for his role as he should be, but unless you are old enough to remember on you own you wouldn't know of the role Ronald Reagan played in pushing Gorbachev and driving the Soviet Union into economic collapse which made it possible for the Wall to come down.
    2. I between Hillary Clinton saying "I have the pleasure to introduce a man who tore down different kinds of walls. Including walls of racial intolerance." MM MMM MM Barack Husein Obama. Followed by a cheesy video attempt to make it about Obama, with no credit given to Reagan.

    This only adds to my disdain for Obama and Both Clintons.

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    Re: Thousands cheer 20 years since fall of Berlin Wall

    Reagan's economic policy had zero effect on the Wall coming down. I was born in 1992, 3 years after reunification, but that doesn't mean I'm somehow not qualified to make a judgement on this. I've studied enough history to know that the Wall's collapse was not economically motivated. The credit rests with Gorbachev for encouraging a more self-determining outlook in the east as well as the Wall's border guards for refusing to fire on ordinary civilians, against the orders of GDR commanders iirc.

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    Re: Thousands cheer 20 years since fall of Berlin Wall

    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    Reagan's economic policy had zero effect on the Wall coming down. I was born in 1992, 3 years after reunification, but that doesn't mean I'm somehow not qualified to make a judgement on this. I've studied enough history to know that the Wall's collapse was not economically motivated. The credit rests with Gorbachev for encouraging a more self-determining outlook in the east as well as the Wall's border guards for refusing to fire on ordinary civilians, against the orders of GDR commanders iirc.
    "Zero effect". Oh boy.

    You learned your lessons well, but they are wrong. It's amazing, but this is the standard level of ignorance among Europeans. Having worked in the East Bloc for years post Commie, I was always amazed at the level of ignorance both younger and older generations possessed about their evil past and how they were freed. Western Europeans are equally ignorant.

    1. Gorby was a staunch Communist.

    2. The party did not elect Gorby after Andropov and Chernyenko to finish off Communism.

    3. Perestroika and Glasnost were means to save Communism.

    4. It was Reagan, Thatcher, Kohl & co., but principally the first two responsible for demise of the USSR. They escalated an arms race the Commies knew they couldn't win. Star Wars scared the Commi leadership. If I recall correctly, 30% of GDP was spent on arms in the USSR... and technology was moving fast; the Commies couldn't steal fast enough, and didn't have the means to produce the technologies a free market creates. Hence, the road to collapse.

    5. People like Ted Kennedy were actually assisting the Commies with love letters from the west.

    Reagan brought Gorby to the precipice and let him take the final step.

    For years the press and leftists in America and throughout were saying Communism was here to stay. Only Reagan had the vision and guts to see otherwise and plan for their defeat, and speak openly about it.

    Go back and read the newspapers of the day, watch news reels... the left vilified Reagan for his views. He was labeled a Cowboy (like Bush) and warmonger (like Bush) and stupid (like Bush). They were wrong. So awfully wrong.

    The idiots on the left protested Reagan in precisely the same manner they did against George W Bush.

    Now there. You learned more truth in 30 seconds than years from your history teachers and books.

    Live it, love it, learn it.

    This is what leadership looks like... unlike the fool we have today. The Commies would have loved Obama.
    He is their kind of sheep.

    He starts ripping at 3:50

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCu7-Ka_zbY"]YouTube- British Parliament: President Reagan's Address to Members of the British Parliament - 6/8/82[/ame]

    .
    Last edited by zimmer; 11-10-09 at 06:05 AM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Re: Thousands cheer 20 years since fall of Berlin Wall

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    [U]nless you are old enough to remember on you own you wouldn't know of the role Ronald Reagan played in pushing Gorbachev and driving the Soviet Union into economic collapse which made it possible for the Wall to come down.
    I'd say that it would be next to none. Apart from the fact that the Soviet Union was dissolved against the will of the majority of its citizens and did not "collapse," this occurred several years after the end of Ronald Reagan's disastrous tenure.

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    Re: Thousands cheer 20 years since fall of Berlin Wall

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    1. Gorby was a staunch Communist.
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    2. The party did not elect Gorby after Andropov and Chernyenko to finish off Communism.
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    3. Perestroika and Glasnost were means to save Communism.
    Obviously. While you clearly consider your statements to be some revelation, they are depressingly banal. What in the world do you think I have been learning? The Short Course?

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    4. It was Reagan, Thatcher, Kohl & co., but principally the first two responsible for demise of the USSR. They escalated an arms race the Commies knew the couldn't win. Star Wars scared the Commi leadership.
    Partially.

    But the point is, did you comprehend more than the first sentence of my post? It is about the Berlin Wall, not the fall of the USSR. The two events are in no way synonymous. Reagan's economic policy did have an effect on the collapse of the USSR, perhaps an unjust effect, but okay. They had no effect, none whatsoever, on the internal decisions within the Communist bloc that led to the fall of the Berlin Wall.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Reagan brought Gorby to the precipice and let him take the final step.
    Stop putting the man on a pedestal he does not deserve.
    Last edited by Yossarian; 11-10-09 at 05:58 AM.

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    Re: Thousands cheer 20 years since fall of Berlin Wall

    But the point is, did you comprehend more than the first sentence of my post? It is about the Berlin Wall, not the fall of the USSR. The two events are in no way synonymous. Reagan's economic policy did have an effect on the collapse of the USSR, perhaps an unjust effect, but okay. They had no effect, none whatsoever, on the internal decisions within the Communist bloc that led to the fall of the Berlin Wall.
    LOL... that is absurd. Absolutely, 100% absurd.

    As is this.

    Stop putting the man on a pedestal he does not deserve.
    I know you Europeans resent Reagan. It's difficult to be so badly wrong over, and over, and over.
    Last edited by zimmer; 11-10-09 at 06:16 AM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Re: Thousands cheer 20 years since fall of Berlin Wall

    Provide at least SOME justification for your refutation.

    I am not a goddamn European. I'm from Australia. Australia. Can't you read? <-------

    I do not resent Reagan as much as you appear to unjustifiably worship him.
    Last edited by Yossarian; 11-10-09 at 06:18 AM.

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    Re: Thousands cheer 20 years since fall of Berlin Wall

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    I know you Europeans resent Reagan. It's difficult to be so badly wrong over, and over, and over.
    He's not European, though I'm starting to wish that the U.S. had lost the Revolutionary War after reading your posts. Aren't you going to at least pretend that you have a rebuttal on hand?

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    Re: Thousands cheer 20 years since fall of Berlin Wall

    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    Provide at least SOME justification for your refutation.

    I am not a goddamn European. I'm from Australia. Australia. Can't you read? <-------

    I do not resent Reagan as much as you appear to unjustifiably worship him.
    You have to forgive Zimmer, he lives in a parallel universe.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Thousands cheer 20 years since fall of Berlin Wall

    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    Provide at least SOME justification for your refutation.

    I am not a goddamn European. I'm from Australia. Australia. Can't you read? <-------

    I do not resent Reagan as much as you appear to unjustifiably worship him.
    I don't look at the tidbits under people's names, just as you haven't looked at the realities of the past.

    You sound like a typical leftist, ignorant European. Shame the schools in Australia are feeding crap to their citizens, but hell, America isn't any better today.

    I don't idolize anyone, but appreciate clear, honest, forthright, principled leadership. Reagan had this in bushels.

    .
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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