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Thread: House majority votes in favor Health Care Bill

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    Re: House majority votes in favor Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    By using a source that you didn't correctly quote.

    It's in the audio, since you like to go source hunting, have fun.

    That is complete crap, it's in the bill, it's been discussed, it's been voted on, and Pelosi already said as much, it's out there.
    and/or jail time.
    The only way a person can get jail time is by being convicted of willful failure to pay a tax properly imposed for not obtaining the proper health insurance, bro. If a person doesn't have the ability to pay, the failure to pay the tax isn't willful. The government has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant had the ability to pay.

    PS: Criminal prosecution is not authorized without careful review by both the IRS and the Department of Justice. In practice the application of criminal penalties is infrequent.

    http://www.c-spanvideo.org/congress/...531&id=9058403
    Last edited by Whip Comes Down; 11-13-09 at 04:32 PM.

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    Re: House majority votes in favor Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Whip Comes Down View Post
    The only way a person can get jail time is by being convicted of willful failure to pay a tax properly imposed for not obtaining the proper health insurance, bro. If a person doesn't have the ability to pay, the failure to pay the tax isn't willful. The government has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant had the ability to pay.

    PS: Criminal prosecution is not authorized without careful review by both the IRS and the Department of Justice. In practice the application of criminal penalties is infrequent.

    View Appearance | C-SPAN Congressional Chronicle, Created by Cable. Offered as a Public Service.
    Is that you Bill Clinton???? Only a word contortionist like Clinton would say the things you are spouting.

    Do you really believe that the IRS won't put someone in prison because they claim they don't have the money to pay taxes??? You are living in dreamland.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: House majority votes in favor Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Do you really believe that the IRS won't put someone in prison because they claim they don't have the money to pay taxes?
    I know they won't do that, bro. However, they might put you in jail if they can proved beyond a reasonable doubt that you had the ability to pay and willfully failed to do so. However, before they do that, all of the civil remedies must be exhausted and both the IRS and the Justice Department have to approve the prosecution.

    Since poor folk are going to have their health insurance premiums subsidized if they don't have the ability to pay them, I don't foresee many people being fined for not obtaining health insurance.

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    Re: House majority votes in favor Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Whip Comes Down View Post
    The only way a person can get jail time is by being convicted of willful failure to pay a tax properly imposed for not obtaining the proper health insurance, bro. If a person doesn't have the ability to pay, the failure to pay the tax isn't willful. The government has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant had the ability to pay.

    PS: Criminal prosecution is not authorized without careful review by both the IRS and the Department of Justice. In practice the application of criminal penalties is infrequent.

    View Appearance | C-SPAN Congressional Chronicle, Created by Cable. Offered as a Public Service.
    Hence, the Obamacare tax is unconstitutional.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: House majority votes in favor Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Hence, the Obamacare tax is unconstitutional.
    You just threw that in there, hoping it was right, didn't you?
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    Re: House majority votes in favor Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Obamacare tax is unconstitutional.
    The experts disagree, bro.

    Legal experts have disputed claim that the reform bill is unconstitutional. Legal scholars -- including George Washington University law professor Orin Kerr, who recently served as a special counsel to Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX) during Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor's confirmation proceedings -- have pointed out the flaws in conservatives' arguments, including the facts that regulation of the health care sector falls under Congress' broad power to regulate interstate commerce and that Congress has repeatedly passed laws regulating health care and health insurance. Fox example, Kerr said Napolitano's op-ed was "filled with so many errors, misstatements, and plainly weak claims that the mere number of those becomes far more interesting than the argument of the op-ed itself." And assessing the whether such a mandate is constitutional, Cornell law professor Michael C. Dorf wrote that he "rejected" what he described as the "libertarian" "objection that an individual mandate would be an unprecedented burden on liberty because it would affirmatively direct conduct, rather than either forbidding conduct or imposing affirmative obligations on only those who engage in conduct that the government has the power to forbid." He added that there are substantial precedents for such affirmative obligations and even if there were not, there is no reason in principle why an affirmative duty is a greater restriction on liberty than a prohibition or condition." He also assessed the "federalism objection" to the mandate's constitutionality, writing, in part, that "the individual mandate is 'plainly adapted' to the undoubtedly legitimate end of regulating the enormous and enormously important health-care sector of the national economy. It is therefore constitutional."

    Myths and falsehoods about health care reform, continued | Media Matters for America
    Last edited by Whip Comes Down; 11-13-09 at 06:58 PM.

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    Re: House majority votes in favor Health Care Bill

    The experts disagree, bro.
    1. How many experts?
    2. What constitutes an expert? (keep in mind your article is from MediaMatters...their opinion of "expert" could be anyone who is liberal...
    3. Not all experts agree with each other...
    4. What most experts say is not always right...

    Argument fail.
    The only way a person can get jail time is by being convicted of willful failure to pay a tax properly imposed for not obtaining the proper health insurance, bro
    Why on earth would someone have to pay a tax to not have health insurance? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Also, taxing people without health insurance seems to be counterproductive of the purpose of the bill which is to help people without insurance. The government also removes individual choice in this bill. People have a right to choose any healthcare they want or have none at all without interference from the government.
    Last edited by Lakryte; 11-13-09 at 07:46 PM.

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    Re: House majority votes in favor Health Care Bill

    obamacare jails only those who can afford to pay but refuse---that's some great defense

    LOL!

    i'm in no position to say the mandate on individuals to buy for themselves that which they can't afford in the first place, obama's perverse view of universalism, is or is not constitutional

    but i can say with confidence, there are many who argue so, most famously, notably rivkin and casey in the washington post's op ed of aug 22

    David B. Rivkin Jr. and Lee A. Casey - Constitutionality of Health Insurance Mandate Questioned - washingtonpost.com

    Legal experts and Civil Rights Commission attack Obama health-care plan as unconstitutional

    Health Care Mandate Sparks Constitutional Debate - FOXNews.com

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    Re: House majority votes in favor Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    obamacare jails only those who can afford to pay but refuse---that's some great defense

    LOL!

    i'm in no position to say the mandate on individuals to buy for themselves that which they can't afford in the first place, obama's perverse view of universalism, is or is not constitutional

    but i can say with confidence, there are many who argue so, most famously, notably rivkin and casey in the washington post's op ed of aug 22

    David B. Rivkin Jr. and Lee A. Casey - Constitutionality of Health Insurance Mandate Questioned - washingtonpost.com

    Legal experts and Civil Rights Commission attack Obama health-care plan as unconstitutional

    Health Care Mandate Sparks Constitutional Debate - FOXNews.com
    Got any other "sources?"
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    Re: House majority votes in favor Health Care Bill

    The bottom line here has not changed one iota. The entire purpose of this legislation is to establish a one payer government run health care system in the United States. If it is not overt in this legislation that should not surprise anyone. These liberal politicians lie constantly and hold the population in contempt. They plan to pass a benign and diluted down and cheap bill in the senate. They really don't care what is in it. When the bill goes to conference between the house and senate they will fill it with all the amendments that would not let it pass the 60% passage rules in the senate. As a conferenced bill it will only require a 50%+1 vote.

    The debacle here is that these elected officials are ramming this down their constituents throats who they were elected to serve during a time when the very financial survival of the country is tenuous. They are either insane or are intentionally trying to destroy our economic system. I just wish that the 2010 election cycle would hurry up and get here.
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.--Thomas Jefferson

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