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Thread: House majority votes in favor Health Care Bill

  1. #141
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    Re: House majority votes in favor Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    After how long of a wait?
    No wait. If your local UHC says you will wait longer than a year, and are experiencing extreme pain, you can get transferred and expenses funded ASAP.


    Ah, so it's all because of competition and the high rate of acceptance of the NHS.

    Waiting 7 years is never acceptable.
    Refer above, nobody waited 7 years.

    It also forces competition out - meaning there are less doctors and less private places to go to, meaning that demand increases while supply dwindles and government artificially deflates prices, running private hospitals and insurance out. Not a good motivation for attracting talented medical workers and surgeons.
    Can you list a country as an example? Britain is experiencing strong consistent growth in private healthcare.

    FORCED to pay the health tax you mean --- and I find it insane to call my government to get a medical referral. Do I also call my plumber to procure a referral to a good bank? This might work in down-trodden and government soaked Europe but there will be riots if this is how it works in the U.S.
    Yes, like your FORCED to pay any other tax which funds something you benefit from. Welcome to the modern world.
    Here, you dont call a government referral, you call a GP.

    Whew... let's hope it's not cancer then eh? Or heart disease... or mini strokes... maybe this is one of those secondary benefits under the moniker of "population control". I can get a GP today, within a few hours... why the hell would anyone want to wait 18 months? What ****ing planet are people living on that they accept this?
    It doesnt take that long to get a GP, it takes that long to get the surgery. You can get a diagnosis within days. You have to remember that not everybody can afford such medical treatment that the private sector offers, hence the 10's of millions of Americans without healthcare. Those who cannot afford such expensive surgery will have to wait at most a year or so depending on what the surgery is, but they recieve the treatment and walk away with their lives.


    Well thank God for the steady stream of morphine... a few years on morphine is much better than getting the problem taken care of within a month don't you think?
    How about if you dont have that option? Dont just think about yourself.

    Again, who makes this determination of "who needs life saving surgery"? And it sounds like - if the UHC cannot handle it, the financial burden goes back on the individual anyway which is what the U.S. has now.. so what the hell am I benefiting again? Let's recap:
    Your GP.

    No point in answering the other questions, just going in circles.
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  2. #142
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    Re: House approves landmark healthcare reform bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Goodness, 220-215. A squeaker of that level is rare. That means that only an once less of support in the Senate will kill the bill. At least I can hope.
    Looks like they weren't able to strongarm all the Blue Dogs.
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  3. #143
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    Re: House majority votes in favor Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    Which varies depending on the family and insurance carrier you choose. I insure my entire family for under $500 per month, that is through my company though. When I was a consultant I insured my family for about $750 (PPO still).

    If the government plans are to be competitive with and more affordable then private plans then my guess is they need to be under $150 per person a month.


    That's not incentive. It's currently cheaper for me to offer no insurance to my employee's and tell them to get their own, that doesn't mean I'm going to do it. For employers to stay competitive in the hiring market they have to appeal to job seekers by offering an attractive benefits package. The job market is going to drive what types of insurance plans companies offer.
    The Wall Street Journal has some "highlights" of the bill. Following is their take on costs:

    On Nov. 2, the Congressional Budget Office estimated what the plans will likely cost. An individual earning $44,000 before taxes who purchases his own insurance will have to pay a $5,300 premium and an estimated $2,000 in out-of-pocket expenses, for a total of $7,300 a year, which is 17% of his pre-tax income. A family earning $102,100 a year before taxes will have to pay a $15,000 premium plus an estimated $5,300 out-of-pocket, for a $20,300 total, or 20% of its pre-tax income. Individuals and families earning less than these amounts will be eligible for subsidies paid directly to their insurer.
    Betsy McCaughey: What the Pelosi Health Care Bill Really Says - WSJ.com

    It's going to be interesting when people find out how much this debacle is going to cost them.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





  4. #144
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    Re: House majority votes in favor Health Care Bill

    This is basically Nancy Pelosi saying to Harry Reid, "Nanny, nanny, boo, boo, you can't blame it on me!"

    Had to pass this on a Saturday night when no one was watching, eh Nancy? LOL. Come on, grow some balls. LOL

    All this did was ensure utter outrage in 2010 against a host of Democrats in the House. The Republicans are licking their chops over this.

    Pelosi is without a doubt the dumbest, most inarticulate speaker we've ever had. She looks like a used-up bimbo in front of that microphone. It's patently clear that she has no idea what the bill is about, not a clue about what repercussions it would have or the financial impact of it. She might as well be playing Barbies with her friends.

  5. #145
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    Re: House majority votes in favor Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    No wait. If your local UHC says you will wait longer than a year, and are experiencing extreme pain, you can get transferred and expenses funded ASAP.
    So which is it... no wait or nothing longer than a year?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Can you list a country as an example? Britain is experiencing strong consistent growth in private healthcare.
    You'll need to provide evidence of such an assertion. Can you prove there's been growth in private healthcare systems between the start of NHS and today?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Yes, like your FORCED to pay any other tax which funds something you benefit from. Welcome to the modern world.
    Here, you dont call a government referral, you call a GP.
    I use the word "FORCED" because our Constitution does not include any referral of "healthcare for all". Whether or not benefits are derived are irrelevant and if that's the "modern world", I'll pass - but unfortunately if I DO pass, the current bill passed our House says I'll be fined and/or jailed. Sounds like a totalitarian position to me.

    Does the GP make the determination on their own, how people are prioritized or do they utilize government guidelines provided to the GP on how to prioritize patients? My point here that you're obviously hesitant to address, is that ultimately the government guidelines are the backbone of the decision.


    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    It doesnt take that long to get a GP, it takes that long to get the surgery. You can get a diagnosis within days. You have to remember that not everybody can afford such medical treatment that the private sector offers, hence the 10's of millions of Americans without healthcare.
    You stated if one cannot afford it, the UHC pays... so which is it? I get immediate diagnoses of a disease but can't get surgery for 18 months? But then if I cannot afford it the UHC pays... Second, you forget that 290 million people DO have healthcare and frankly don't want it changed.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Those who cannot afford such expensive surgery will have to wait at most a year or so depending on what the surgery is, but they recieve the treatment and walk away with their lives.
    So I'm confused... is it only those who cannot afford have to wait for surgery or is it everyone who gets prioritized?


    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    How about if you dont have that option? Dont just think about yourself.
    That doesn't make sense... if I don't have the option don't think about myself. Who's health is more important to me, my own or someone else's? I vote my own.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    No point in answering the other questions, just going in circles.
    No point in addressing the hard questions. Bottom line is this is a leap backwards to ruin a good system in the U.S., for two reasons:

    - One a political reason to give Democrats a "win" on a 30 year wish list to take over a large portion of capitalism.

    - Two, a "common good" reason to address a vast minority of people who do not have or wish to not have insurance and MAKE them get it, under penalty of jail, while ignoring that 290 million people are currently covered and a majority of those do not want to change...


    All bad reasons and we'll all suffer for it's passage. No wonder the extremists see Obama and his ilk as socialists... they may have a point.

  6. #146
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    Re: House approves landmark healthcare reform bill

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Looks like they weren't able to strongarm all the Blue Dogs.
    They didn't need to. 54% of the Blue Dogs voted for the bill in the House. That's 24 of the 52.

  7. #147
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    Re: House approves landmark healthcare reform bill

    Robbinig Peter to pay Paul. You'd think enough people would have enough character not to allow such a thing in America.

    Unfortunately, there are enough "Pauls" out there that don't effort to carry their own weight and will always vote for the government to give them other people's stuff.

    Character is in short supply anymore. That's why socialism will always be lurking.

  8. #148
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    Re: House majority votes in favor Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    tell it to the milwaukee business journal

    and 100 others

    these days, it's not real hard for "employers to stay competitive in the hiring market"

    all they gotta do is whisper in the morning to a neighbor they're hiring

    they get flooded with ap's by lunch

    times are changing
    Not by qualified individuals though most of the time. I was hiring for a marketing coordinator last month and got flooded with resumes from people with all varying backgrounds but only three had any experience or even interest in marketing. They were all just looking for a pay check until a job they really wanted came available.

    Unemployment is up but for specific types of jobs. Factory workers and mid-high level managers is what I have seen the most of. Sadly, that's what people aren't hiring for.
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
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  9. #149
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    Re: House majority votes in favor Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    I'm not going to defend any of the points because I think government run health care is a bad idea but I am curious on the below points.



    What is the cost to each person? You previously said it was $1,000 per month but weren't able to back that up. Any ideas what this un affordable cost is going to be?

    Also, as an employer what is the incentive for me to dump my current coverage? Currently I make my choice of coverage based on balancing cost and appeal to my current and future employee's. Is the government run health care going to be cheaper for my employee's and a better service?
    On Nov. 2, the Congressional Budget Office estimated what the plans will likely cost. An individual earning $44,000 before taxes who purchases his own insurance will have to pay a $5,300 premium and an estimated $2,000 in out-of-pocket expenses, for a total of $7,300 a year, which is 17% of his pre-tax income. A family earning $102,100 a year before taxes will have to pay a $15,000 premium plus an estimated $5,300 out-of-pocket, for a $20,300 total, or 20% of its pre-tax income. Individuals and families earning less than these amounts will be eligible for subsidies paid directly to their insurer.
    Betsy McCaughey: What the Pelosi Health Care Bill Really Says - WSJ.com

    Sorry Gill.... didn't get to where you had already posted this.

    People need to read this whole article.
    Last edited by Crunch; 11-09-09 at 03:22 PM.

  10. #150
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    Re: House majority votes in favor Health Care Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    So which is it... no wait or nothing longer than a year?
    If you are in extreme pain, they will transfer you to a private sector and fund those expenses.

    You'll need to provide evidence of such an assertion. Can you prove there's been growth in private healthcare systems between the start of NHS and today?
    I can tell you there have been no major contractions to the private health sector and that it continues to grow regardless of some accusations being thrown about here that it intends to destroy the private sector.

    OHE compendium of health statistics - Google Books

    I use the word "FORCED" because our Constitution does not include any referral of "healthcare for all". Whether or not benefits are derived are irrelevant and if that's the "modern world", I'll pass - but unfortunately if I DO pass, the current bill passed our House says I'll be fined and/or jailed. Sounds like a totalitarian position to me.
    I see where your going with it. But there is a saying you need to bare in mind; "Democracy is the system where we get to elect our dictators".

    Does the GP make the determination on their own, how people are prioritized or do they utilize government guidelines provided to the GP on how to prioritize patients? My point here that you're obviously hesitant to address, is that ultimately the government guidelines are the backbone of the decision.
    What do you mean government guidlines? The condition the patient is in and if and when they should be prioritized is a personal decision made by the GP. I dont really get what you mean by guidlines though.


    You stated if one cannot afford it, the UHC pays... so which is it? I get immediate diagnoses of a disease but can't get surgery for 18 months? But then if I cannot afford it the UHC pays... Second, you forget that 290 million people DO have healthcare and frankly don't want it changed.
    All 290 million people?

    And look, if your diagnosed under the UHC with a disease you will recieve treatment until your doctors can decide how best to approach the situation. If its a disease that requires surgerical attention, the same process applies only if it is life threatening you will be transferred to the private sector assuming there is no chance of surviving on the waiting list and if financially unable, will be funded by the UHC.

    So I'm confused... is it only those who cannot afford have to wait for surgery or is it everyone who gets prioritized?
    Ive explained that up there. And again, prioritization is in accordance to how serious the status quo is.


    That doesn't make sense... if I don't have the option don't think about myself. Who's health is more important to me, my own or someone else's? I vote my own.

    Absolutely, but tell me you can gaurentee me you will never find yourself in need of life saving and over-priced surgery that you are unable to afford (god forbid). The UHC is their to provide you with that healthcare

    No point in addressing the hard questions. Bottom line is this is a leap backwards to ruin a good system in the U.S., for two reasons:
    My intent isnt to sway your opinion. Im simply adding to this argument things from a first hand account - something many Americans probably including yourself, lack. I like to address your hard questions, but as ive said, im not here to start an argument, im here to share with you my personal first hand knowledge and information. So here you have it. Enjoy.
    Last edited by kaya'08; 11-09-09 at 03:57 PM.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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