Poland calls for more US troops

Elena said:

1. If you think Obama decides anything you delude yourself. He is a figure-head. Look at what clans are pulling his strings.

2. I already answered this question.
But if you want I will rephrase my answer.

Poland was meant to be part of a wall between Russia and Europe. As Poland is HISTORICALLY the most anti-Russian nation in existance it was meant to be the leader of an anti-Russian choir; and when I say "historically", I mean since the 13-th century when Polish-Lithuanian Empire concured Southern and Western Russia. That's all. Nothing special. The wall failed to materialise. That's why the US thought nothing of ditching it alongside with the Baltic states.

To the US Ukraine and Georgia are now more important.

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You've failed to prove any usefulness - as I've stated, they were irrelevant until 1991. This fabled wall had nothing to do with Poland. Bringing up the 13th century is irrelevant.

If Obama doesn't make the decisions who does? Don't tell me... the Ulluminati or the Bilderberg Group right? Or maybe the Masons? :lol:

Ockham said:

You've failed to prove any usefulness - as I've stated, they were irrelevant until 1991.

If Obama doesn't make the decisions who does? Don't tell me... the Ulluminati or the Bilderberg Group right? Or maybe the Masons? :lol:

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Ockham, Poland does not have any special "usefulness" apart from it can always be relied on to be anti-Russian (which is traditional). Its only "usefulness" was as a building block of a wall between Europe and Russia. And you are right, that "wall" had nothing to do with Polish interests and everything to do with the US interests in Europe.

The last time Poland was truly relevant was around 16-th -- 17-th century. Since then Poland was always used as a loose change by big players. And this time it was used and discarded. What do you want to hear?

Why "the Ulluminati"? From what I can see, the first clan behind Obama is Clinton clan... Take a look at others.

kaya'08 said:

Meanwhile President Dmitry Medvedev on Thursday praised a bill that permits the use of military force beyond Russia's borders but said that troops would only be deployed in extreme cases. "Today we don't have any problems on this issue from a legal point of view," Medvedev told parliament members. Earlier this year Medvedev submitted to parliament a bill aimed at giving the president a freer hand in deciding when to use troops outside the national borders.

Both chambers of the Russian parliament voted in favor of the bill last month. "As our recent experience shows, a legal mechanism should be in place," he said in apparent reference to Russia's five-day war with Georgia last year.

Russia criticizes Poland's call for US troops - Hurriyet Daily News and Economic Review

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Of course, Poland needs more troops. Their entire army just drowned while marching to the northern front. :mrgreen:

Elena said:

Ockham, Poland does not have any special "usefulness" apart from it can always be relied on to be anti-Russian (which is traditional). Its only "usefulness" was as a building block of a wall between Europe and Russia.

The last time Poland was truly relevant was around 16-th -- 17-th century. Since then Poland was always used as a loose change by big players. And this time it was used and discarded. What do you want to hear?

Why "the Ulluminati"? From what I can see, the first clan behind Obama is Clinton clan... Take a look at others.

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Poland has a fear of being taken over by Russian influence and dominance. Its against the Russians so put simply, its on our side.
Therefore, if it is willing to contribute to Western security, considering its geographical location (a gateway into Russia's backyard but at the same time our neighbour), it would be wrong to ignore Poland and allow it to slip into the Russian vacuum in the region and strengthen them when we could have stopped it, but did nothing, even when they asked us.

Poland has formally asked for troops because of the intimidation the Russians have resorted to by engaging in joint military activities with dictator Lukashenko beside the Polish boarder, which included the participation of hundrends of soldiers and many hundreds of tanks. Dont forget the bill they passed recently after their little incursion with Georgia.

The 5 day war was evidence that Russia still has the ability to assert its influence by force. So any fear by Poland needs to be taken seriously. Drawing up plans for a missle defence shield with the full cooperation and permission of Poland, and then scrapping plans and leaving them in the cold, is hardly a decent thing to do.

My initial thought was, keep the missile defence shield away from Russia. We dont need the Americans stirring up tensions with our neighbour...but after their little war with Georgia and their increasingly dictatorial government run by President for Life Vladimir Putin and puppet Medvedev, and their obvious intentions to intimidate neighbours as if to say "your ally screwed you over. You stuck your middle finger up at us when you thought you was gaurenteed protection. But, no protecting you now", then i believe Russia deserves everything NATO can throw at them.

Obama done an injustice to the concerned people of Poland and i can only say sorry to them.

kaya'08 said:

Poland has a fear of being taken over by Russian influence and dominance. Its against the Russians so put simply, its on our side.
Therefore, if it is willing to contribute to Western security,


Poland has formally asked for troops because of the intimidation the Russians have resorted to by engaging in joint military activities

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And EU took Poland and the rest of European donkeys into the Union precisely to minimise the US influence on them and keep the way to Russia open.
As you can see, the times of "Western interests" as euphemism for US interests are gone. There are interests of the US, and there are interests of Europe, and they are often at odds.

Sorry to break the news, but military exercises (including the ones on the borders with other states, are nothing special. Few months ago the US conducted such exercises on Russian/Georgian border. What is good for the Goose, good for the Gander.

Elena said:

And EU took Poland and the rest of European donkeys into the Union precisely to minimise the US influence on them and keep the way to Russia open.

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Not at all, they joined to align themselves further with the West and distance themselves from the Russians, aswell as isolating the Eastern European countries who looked towards the Kremlin. They joined because they believed the EU could offer them the economic benefits they so desperately needed. Did the UK join the EU to run away from US influence? Yeah right, hardly. Poland has shown in recent months that it needs NATO and the US to protect it from Russia whereas the EU cannot, it is merely a market agreement thus far and has no legitimate military foundation. The British hardly joined to run away from the US so this statement is largely unfounded.

As you can see, the times of "Western interests" as euphemism for US interests are gone. There are interests of the US, and there are interests of Europe, and they are often at odds.

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When does the "European interests" euphenism go? This is the problem with the EU pupper masters. There is no European interest. There is a British interest, a German interest, so on so fourth. And, when it comes to Russia, we tend to meet with the Americans.

Sorry to break the news, but military exercises (including the ones on the borders with other states, are nothing special. Few months ago the US conducted such exercises on Russian/Georgian border. What is good for the Goose, good for the Gander.

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Yes, but shortly after the Americans announce they do not want to put the shields in Poland? Its all to coincidential. And its pretty obvious the military excercise happened at Polands boarders for political reasons, just like NATO's little excercise in Georgia (and it was not carried out beside the Russian boarder).

kaya'08 said:

1. The 5 day war was evidence that Russia still has the ability to assert its influence by force.

2. President for Life Vladimir Putin and puppet Medvedev,

3. and their obvious intentions to intimidate neighbours

4. Obama done an injustice to the concerned people of Poland and i can only say sorry to them.

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1. What the problem, Russia didn't let Georgia to exterminate Ossetians?

2. Both of them enjoy respect and love of the absolute majority of the citizens of Russia. Isn't it what democracy is about: to have the leaders the absolute majority voted for?

3. Which ones? Poland? The reason it screams so loud is because it knows everyone has lost interest in it.

4. Don't. Poles were oposed to it. It was needed by the political elite of Poland, and I did advise you not to mistaken interests of political elites for the interests of the people.
"Fifty-three percent of the Polish respondents to a recent CBOS survey are against plans to install elements of a U.S. anti-missile shield in Poland." Poll shows 53% Poles against anti-missile shield _Europe--China Economic Net

Elena said:

1. What the problem, Russia didn't let Georgia to exterminate Ossetians?

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Russia provoked an attack. You should read the UN report.

2. Both of them enjoy respect and love of the absolute majority of the citizens of Russia. Isn't it what democracy is about: to have the leaders the absolute majority voted for?

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So does most leaders, Hitler had a love for Germany who loved him back. Does that justify anything or define a Democracy? Its pretty obvious Vladimir is the puppet master. He undertakes national duties that is not supposed to be undertaken by the President and he has a large influence and say over what Medvedev does and says. Also, he ammended the constitution which will allow him to run for the Prime ministry again. Convienient - also, dont forget the recent electoral frauds which prompted a Kremlin walkout...which is unusual since the parties usually fear Putin. Sounds like a great Democracy!

3. Which ones? Poland? The reason it screams so loud is because it knows everyone has lost interest in it.

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Obama done an injustice to the Polish people. This is not to say we have no interest in Poland.

4. Don't. Poles were oposed to it. It was needed by the political elite of Poland, and I did advise you not to mistaken interests of political elites for the interests of the people.
"Fifty-three percent of the Polish respondents to a recent CBOS survey are against plans to install elements of a U.S. anti-missile shield in Poland." Poll shows 53% Poles against anti-missile shield _Europe--China Economic Net

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China Economic Net? Do i have to question the legitemacy of this source?

We forgot about Poland.




http://forgotaboutpoland.ytmnd.com/

kaya'08 said:

1. Not at all, they joined

2. They joined because they believed the EU could offer them the economic benefits they so desperately needed.

3. Did the UK join the EU to run away from US influence?

4. Poland has shown in recent months that it needs NATO and the US to protect it from Russia

5. When does the "European interests" euphenism go?

This is the problem with the EU pupper masters. There is no European interest. There is a British interest, a German interest, so on so fourth. And, when it comes to Russia, we tend to meet with the Americans.

6. Yes, but shortly after the Americans announce they do not want to put the shields in Poland? Its all to coincidential.
And its pretty obvious the military excercise happened at Polands boarders for political reasons, just like NATO's little excercise in Georgia (and it was not carried out beside the Russian boarder).

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1. You can't join unless you are TAKEN IN. And that's what happened to Poland and Baltic states: they were taken in in a big hurry!

2. It reminds me of an anekdot: an old lady of about a 100 suddenly starts screaming "He wants to rape me!!! He wants to rape me!!!" Her grandson runs into the room: "Grandma, calm down! No one wants to rape you." She looks sadly at him and says with a sight: "Can I at least dream about it?"

3. What does UK have to do with mainland Europe?

4. See 2

5. European interests is euphemism for the interests of mainly Germany and France since they are the main driving force behind the EU. Again, nothing to do with UK. Right now UK is a 51-st US state. And while UK can't see where the US ends and UK begins, Europeans are increasingly working with Russia.

6. Every military exercise is held for political reasons as well as for reasons of training the military. What is the problem?

kaya'08 said:

1. Russia provoked an attack. You should read the UN report.

2. So does most leaders, Hitler had a love for Germany who loved him back. Does that justify anything or define a Democracy? Its pretty obvious Vladimir is the puppet master. He undertakes national duties that is not supposed to be undertaken by the President and he has a large influence and say over what Medvedev does and says. Also, he ammended the constitution which will allow him to run for the Prime ministry again. Convienient - also, dont forget the recent electoral frauds which prompted a Kremlin walkout...which is unusual since the parties usually fear Putin. Sounds like a great Democracy!

3. Obama done an injustice to the Polish people. This is not to say we have no interest in Poland.

4. China Economic Net? Do i have to question the legitemacy of this source?

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1. I think its you who should read the report. And in any case, just how did Russia provoke genocide of Ossetians by Georgia? Please, explain yourself.

2. Sorry, you lost me in all the slogans you piled up there. Can you please explain your thought in your own words?

3. Most Poles were against it. Why do you think the wishes of political elite should take precedence over the wishes of the people?

4. Why? Because it doesn't support the US propaganda?

Elena said:

Why do you talk of the US somehow betraying Poland to Russian threat, if according to the US official testimony the missile shield was NOT directed against Russia?????

Was the US economic with truth? Again?

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How does one 'aim' a defensive tool?

Elena said:

Why do you talk of the US somehow betraying Poland to Russian threat, if according to the US official testimony the missile shield was NOT directed against Russia?????

Was the US economic with truth? Again?

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Positioned for multiple threats.
Does everything have to be spelled out for the kids or is there room for doing things with diplomatic panache?

It's wiseacres like you who on one hand said "W" is stupid, and on the other do not understand strategic decisions like... the shield, and corralling the idiot terrorists in Iraq.

Of course, you just might believe wars can be won on the defensive and peace achieved through weakness.

.

Elena said:

Long it remain undemocratic!

As for the rest, never mistaken interests of kept elites for that of the people of the countries. And time of the US expansion into Russia's European backyard without Russia's consent is pretty much over.

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Hello?

Poland ain't "russia's backyard".

Poland it Poland, a sovereign nation as equally free to enter into treaties with any nation it finds an interest in dealing with.

Russia has no authority over what Poland does, and it's past time Russia give up it's dream of empire.

The Messiah did a completely evil thing by abandoning Poland, and that may become a pivotal event of 21st Century history.

kaya'08 said:

I believe its no less a threat now then it was in the cold war days.

Russia needs to be isolated not legitimized. It hands over nucleur know-how's and weaponaries to nations that have a history of being anti-US and opressive. It has basically funded the biggest threats to the Westen World.

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It is the biggest threat to the West.

Iran is a tool, not a primate with opposable thumbs.

Elena said:

The biggest crime that one can think of is being anti-US! How dare they! :lamo

The biggest threat to the "Western world" is the "Western world" itself. Btw, do you know that anti-US moods are growing in the "Western world" also? Maybe it has something to do with the way the US conducts itself around that same world?

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Yes. We should immediately remove ALL US troops from countries that say they don't like us and tell them to pay for their own defense from here on.

Then we should eliminate ALL foreign aid to all nations that don't like us, citing first the stupidity of feeding our enemies, and the true stupidity of borrowing money to feed our enemies.

Sounds perfectly fair to me.

Elena said:

Why "the Ulluminati"? From what I can see, the first clan behind Obama is Clinton clan... Take a look at others.

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Just checking. All fine now.

Elena said:

:shock:

You do surprise me! Can there be pro-US and at the same time opressive regime?

Look at S-Arabia for example, no talk of it being opressive! Look at Georgia, -- same thing. Israel -- yet another example. Afghanistan under Taliban too was very freedom-loving and non-opressive until Talibs forgot they were expected to be pro-US...

Careful with your definitions! If it's pro-US it can not be opressive!

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You don't have a leg to stand on Ruskie. Your country has been one of the worst human rights offenders in modern history. Your government is corrupt and authoritarian to the core; how many reporters has Putin killed? I lost count...

Just about every modern conflict can be traced back to the expansionism of Russia's dictators and the ultra-nationalist zeal of its repressed citizenry.

Russia's government has done literally nothing to further world peace and progress.

Arch Enemy said:

Italics: Do you have a link to this bill because, quite frankly, that's a bit alarming.

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Yeah, its strange, too.

Its operating armies in that part of Ossetia it stole from Georgia last year. Where's the "bill" authorizing that?

I tell ya, the Messiah's weakness and conciliatory approach to Russia and it's expansionist goals in eastern Europe is scaring the hell out of the people who just escaped domination by the Soviets.

Elena said:

Ockham, Poland does not have any special "usefulness" apart from it can always be relied on to be anti-Russian (which is traditional).

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That's more than sufficient utility for the US to assiduously cultivate sound favorable relations with Warsaw, and what the Messiah did with Bush's missile defense program was as close to treason as it's possible to come without surrendering West Point.

The Messiah has proven, repeatedly and to the nation's intense embarassment, that he's the young impressionable new poker player swimming with the old sharks. And it shows! Moscow published his "private" letter begging Moscow to be nice about Iran, for example.

Scarecrow Akhbar said:

Yes. We should immediately remove ALL US troops from countries that say they don't like us and tell them to pay for their own defense from here on.

Then we should eliminate ALL foreign aid to all nations that don't like us, citing first the stupidity of feeding our enemies, and the true stupidity of borrowing money to feed our enemies.

Sounds perfectly fair to me.

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I think a slightly modified policy of Isolationism could work this time around. Just help those then tell everyone else: Respect is a Two Way Street. It could work...and at worst, the Moral high ground is an excellent place to site your artillery...

kaya'08 said:

Obama done an injustice to the concerned people of Poland and i can only say sorry to them.

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And say to them, "hang on, 2012 is coming. Real Americans don't forget or abandon their friends."

Elena said:

2. Both of them enjoy respect and love of the absolute majority of the citizens of Russia. Isn't it what democracy is about: to have the leaders the absolute majority voted for?

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Yes. That's why the United States is a republic, not a democracy.

EpicDude86 said:

How does one 'aim' a defensive tool?

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More importantly, if Mother Russia isn't planning imperialist expansion, then weapons arrayed to possibly intercept missiles coming from Russia have no targets, and their opponents are wasting time and money.

That's usually a desired goal in any competition, to get the other side to waste resources.

ONLY if Mother Russia is thinking about attacking Western Europe or Poland does the emplacement of those defensive weapons matter.