• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

12 dead, as many as 31 injured in Fort Hood shootings

Not at all. You've presented a case against Islam in general, you're using this man as an example. Your focus here is not the shooter, it's your anti-Islamic agenda. Your posts have been very obvious.

Your agenda is very clear. You're seem dismissive of possible other factors, choosing to focus on Islam as the culprit here. Islam made him do it, that's your angle.

Maybe Hasan's religious jihad and the stress he felt at going to Iraq were analogous to a sleeping pill and booze. Harmless by themselves but when combined there were deadly results?
 
One has to ponder this in the context of his alleged "Islamic Awakening." But there is also more information coming out focusing on how distraught he was over having to deploy.

For the "Islamic Awakening" and "it's just what Muslims do" theory to hold true, why didn't he do this earlier? Why did it take the final realization of his deployment to push him to fulfill his "Islamic obligation?" Was he not a brave Musliim?

No, what I believe happened is that he was on a downward slide into depression and when he learned all his efforts to avoid this conflict were ineffective he snapped. Was his religion an influence? Sure, but not the predominant influence. In my opinion his religion was an ancillary issue. He had plenty of opportunity to kill before, and didn't. There are too many other factors at play here that point to a Muslim who had an emotional breakdown and became a mass murderer.

I'm simply going to need more evidence that he did this because he was a Muslim and not because he was a crazy person who is Muslim.
 
Maybe Hasan's religious jihad and the stress he felt at going to Iraq were analogous to a sleeping pill and booze. Harmless by themselves but when combined there were deadly results?

This is a distinct possibility. If he in fact embraced (I mean really embraced it...such as encouraging others to do so, celebrating specific actors, not just rationalizing it on his blog) a militant, violent approach to jihad. Given the weight of the evidence supporting an incredible emotional crisis he was dealing with, it's entirely possible that he transitioned from a peaceful Muslim to taking up violence...but that would be more likely due to his emotional state than his religion.

Whatever the case, this slide into violence took time to build up. The information points in that direction. He was exhibiting warning signs of emotional crisis. We can't say that this crisis didn't influence his internet postings either. I think he was more desperate than he was a militant religious fanatic.
 
Last edited:
And let me emphasize this so there can be no misunderstanding...I think this guy is a piece of **** scumbag mother ****er who should have been killed. My fear is that his emotional instability will be a factor in him escaping proper justice.
 
And let me emphasize this so there can be no misunderstanding...I think this guy is a piece of **** scumbag mother ****er who should have been killed. My fear is that his emotional instability will be a factor in him escaping proper justice.

I'm glad he wasn't killed as he has some explaining to do, as the Rev. said yesterday.

I heard he is paralyzed as a result of his wounds.

Fort Hood Suspect in Stable Condition but Paralyzed, Nidal Hasan, shooting, - 11/06/09 - Fresno News - abc30.com
 
Last edited:
No it wouldn't.

The problem lies in issues surrounding uneducation, corruption and poverty etc, many countries where extremism is alive. These problems are close by.
You will not solve this problem through just getting a bunch of Muslims turning around and telling the extremists 'You are wrong'. You remove their support base by removing the reasons they exist.

Uneducation, corruption, and poverty. These are the reasons for radicalism? I disagree, Bin Laden himself is from a wealthy family. Many of the terrorist who attacked the US on 911 were college educated, and came from wealthy families.

Major Hasan was college educated and was born in the US to middle class parents.

The 7/7 bombings in London were not commited by uneducated poverty stricken individuals.

Please explain Lalia.
 
Major Hasan was college educated and was born in the US to middle class parents.

And we still don't know that religion was his motivation. The fact that you are using this event to further your anti-Muslim agenda is disgusting.
 
The man clearly has allegiances to Islam with his garb

So anyone who wears a cross or yarmulke should be kicked out of the military?

and when taken along with his comments on the Internet (and made to other military personnel) they reveal he is a risk to have in a military unit faced with its current mission.

And I agree that if they had known that he had made those comments, they should have done something. The reason they didn't know was because they didn't open an investigation. That isn't a religious issue, as anyone who made comments like that should be looked at.

If this small piece of common sense evades your judgment, I am embarrassed for you.

What common sense? All you've said so far is that all people who aren't second generation americans or who dress funny should be kicked out of the military. That's idiotic.
 
So you are saying that a bunch of Bedouins who were made royalty by Standard Oil Co. justifies a racist interpretation of a religion that over its lifespan has been at odds with the Jew or the Kafir?

No. It's only been a really recent event where Jews have been "at odds" with Muslims. Infact, if you could recall from your history textbooks, millions of Jews fled from Europe to live in the middle east because they were getting butchered during the inquisitions.
Don't play that line, the past doesn't look kind for anyone.

You don't know what Kafir means do you? Hint: It has nothing to do with Christians, Zoroastrians, or Jews. I'll give you an additional 10 points if you find the proper name for Jews and Christians in the Islamic tradition.

It is an oath ALSO used before every act of offensive Jihad. I was merely asking him what oath he'd use for his Christian violence so we'd know he was killing for Jesus.

What oath is used today by Christians committing violence in Jesus' name?

Why are you so impressionable? Why do religious extremists rewrite the definition of phrases in your mind? Allahu Akbar is said billions and billions of times in a single day and your definition is "an oath" for Islamic terrorism?

I bet the Christians who commit violence, but of course it's *never* in the name of Christianity (because unlike Islam, Christianity speaks of nothing but peace and good will toward men), probably use a plethora of cultural phrases, but none that I can repeat here.

Islamic terrorism/violence towards others isn't wide spread?

Two words: Cartoon Riots

Haha yeah that was totally widespread. I'm still hiding.

Also...

could someone tell me why this is terrorism and not a mass murder?

if this was done by a christian, or an athiest, who disagreed with the war and us being over there would it be a "terrorist" act.

Sorry, I've never seen any definition of a terrorist act as "Any murder done by a muslim"

Why is this terrorism?

It didn't seem intended by anything that's came out so far to send a political message through fear. It wasn't targetting civilians. There's been zero evidence thus far of being tied to any actual terrorist groups.

Why is this terrorism?

It's neither terrorism, nor mass murder. He attacked military service men on military property... it was an act of militarism; an act of war.

How many people have been forced to become Muslim over the past fourteen-hundred years?

Why do you ask such impossible questions?


We are veering terribly far afield here. Let's rein it in shall we? Let's get back to the subject of the thread. Hasan and his act of violence in the name of Allah.

No. The thread is about the murder of military servicemen at Fort Hood, Tx.
 
It's neither terrorism, nor mass murder. He attacked military service men on military property... it was an act of militarism; an act of war.

Or you could call it espionage, if he was dressed in fatigues. ;)
 
I read the reports of the incident and his actions speak for themselves.

Well, I'll wait until we are officially told what his motivations were before jumping to unnecessary conclusions and assuming what they were.
 
I don't think we have enough information at this time to draw any substantive conclusions about his motivation(s). There exist tangential dots, but as of yet they do not interconnect to form a clear and cohesive picture. Conjecture at this time is both pointless and divisive.

From what I understand, it was a female soldier or police officer who put an end to his killing spree. Has this been confirmed?
 
I don't think we have enough information at this time to draw any substantive conclusions about his motivation(s). There exist tangential dots, but as of yet they do not interconnect to form a clear and cohesive picture. Conjecture at this time is both pointless and divisive.

From what I understand, it was a female soldier or police officer who put an end to his killing spree. Has this been confirmed?

'Tough woman' cop hailed Fort Hood hero - CNN.com

The police officer who ended the Fort Hood massacre by shooting the suspect was known as the enforcer on her street, a "tough woman" who patrolled her neighborhood and once stopped burglars at her house.

"If you come in, I'm going to shoot," Kimberly Munley told the would-be intruders last year.

It was Munley who arrived quickly Thursday at the scene of the worst massacre at an Army base in U.S. history, where 13 people were killed. She confronted the alleged gunman, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, and shot him four times. Munley was wounded in the exchange.

badass
 
I don't think we have enough information at this time to draw any substantive conclusions about his motivation(s).

He was friggen crazy. Just like suicide bombers, Timothy Mc Veigh, abortion clinic bombers or Charles Manson.
 
It seems he made his feelings pretty clear by arguing with work colleagues on numerous occasions about his opposition to the war. Tonight it has been stated by a witness he shouted 'Allah Akbar' prior to carrying out this atrocity. It just goes to show you never really know whats going on in somebody's mind.

Paul
 
Zoroastrians

You get kudos simply for mentioning Zoroastrians

It's neither terrorism, nor mass murder. He attacked military service men on military property... it was an act of militarism; an act of war.

Generally I think acts of war need to be perpetrated on behalf of a country, or at the very least (and a bit more murky sadly) a sizable group of some kind.

Contrary to the Armies recent advertising blitz, I don't think someone is truly an "Army of One"

:)
 
No. It's only been a really recent event where Jews have been "at odds" with Muslims. Infact, if you could recall from your history textbooks, millions of Jews fled from Europe to live in the middle east because they were getting butchered during the inquisitions.
Don't play that line, the past doesn't look kind for anyone.

Yes, and Jews and Christians were forced to flee Arabia in the 7th century establishing the Holy Land of the Hijaz as off-limits to non-Muslims.

You don't know what Kafir means do you?

Kafir in Arabic has two meanings: 1) a non-Muslim, a person who denies Allah or Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him); 2) ungrateful, a person who is not thankful to the favors of Allah. The second meaning can be also used for Muslims who do not show gratitude to Allah. Kafir in this meaning is the opposite of "shakir" (thankful). Christians and Jews are kuffar because they rejected the Prophethood of Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him). …

However, kafir is now a derogatory term, and that is why I would encourage Muslims to use the term "non-Muslims" when referring to people of different faiths.​

IslamonLine.net


Hint: It has nothing to do with Christians, Zoroastrians, or Jews.

Huge fail.

I'll give you an additional 10 points if you find the proper name for Jews and Christians in the Islamic tradition.
Masīḥī ~ Christian
Yahoudy ~ Jew

Keep your points. Don't ever impugn my knowledge again.
 
NYT: Suspect ?mortified? about deployment - The New York Times- msnbc.com

updated 7:43 p.m. PT, Thurs., Nov . 5, 2009
WASHINGTON - Born and reared in Virginia, the son of immigrant parents from a small Palestinian town near Jerusalem, he joined the Army right out of high school, against his parents’ wishes. The Army, in turn, put him through college and then medical school, where he trained to be a psychiatrist.

But Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, the 39-year-old man accused of Thursday’s mass shooting at Fort Hood, Tex., started having second thoughts about his military career a few years ago after other soldiers harassed him for being a Muslim, he told relatives in Virginia.


_______________________________________________________

Apparently coffee stains were not his only anger issues.
I think it would really suck to serve your country while a bunch of your supposed commrads are harassing you for your religious choices.

Aww poor baby, maybe if he hadn't told fellow officers that he though Muslims should rise up and kill Americans then he wouldn't have been harassed if indeed he had ever been harassed at all.
 
RightinNYC said:


Please explain how "CAIR are [sic] unindicted terrorist co-conspirators." The whole organization? Some members?

LOL.
Here we are AGAIN Rookie!

*Anti-CAIR* Defending America from the Council on American-Islamic Relations




Anti-CAIR


In Defense of the Constitution


Let there be no doubt that the Council on American-Islamic Relations is a terrorist supporting front organization that is partially funded by terrorists, founded by terrorists, and that CAIR wishes nothing
more than the implementation of Sharia Law in America

- Proven Truths About CAIR -

Let there be no doubt that the Council on American-Islamic Relations is a terrorist supporting front organization that is partially funded by terrorists, and that CAIR wishes nothing more than the implementation of Sharia Law in America.

CAIR has proven links to, and was founded by, Islamic Terrorists.
CAIR actively supports terrorists and terrorist-supporting
groups and nations.


CAIR is an organization founded by Hamas supporters which seeks to overthrow Constitutional government in the United States and replace it with an Islamist theocracy using our own Constitution as protection.

CAIR was started by Hamas members and is supported by terrorist supporting individuals, groups and countries.

CAIR is not in the United States to promote the civil rights of Muslims.
CAIR is here to make radical Islam the dominant religion in the United States and convert our country into an Islamic theocracy.

CAIR receives direct funding from Islamic terrorist supporting countries.

Since its founding in 1994, the Council on American-Islamic Relations and its employees have combined, conspired, and agreed with third parties, including, but not limited to, the Islamic Association for Palestine (“IAP”), the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development (“HLF”), the Global Relief Foundation (“GRF”), and foreign nationals hostile to the interests of the United States, to provide material support to known terrorist organizations, to advance the Hamas agenda, and to propagate radical Islam. The Council on American-Islamic Relations, and certain of its officers, directors, and employees, have acted in support of, and in furtherance of, this conspiracy.


* * * *
CAIR Employees And Officials Support Terror

Senior CAIR employee Randall Todd Royer, a/k/a “Ismail” Royer, pled guilty and was sentenced to twenty years in prison for participating in a network of militant jihadists centered in Northern Virginia. He admitted to aiding and abetting three persons who sought training in a terrorist camp in Pakistan for the purpose of waging jihad against American troops in Afghanistan.
Royer’s illegal actions occurred while he was employed with CAIR

CAIR's Director of Community Relations, Bassem Khafagi, was arrested by the United States due to his ties with a terror-financing front group. Khafagi pled guilty to charges of visa and bank fraud, and agreed to be deported to Egypt.
Khafagi’s illegal actions occurred while he was employed by CAIR.

On December 18, 2002, Ghassan Elashi, founding board member of CAIR-Texas, a founder of the Holy Land Foundation,and a brother-in-law of Musa Abu Marzook , was arrested by the United States and charged with, among other things, making false statements on export declarations, dealing in the property of a designated terrorist organization, conspiracy and money laundering.
Ghassan Elashi committed his crimes while working at CAIR, and was found Guilty.

CAIR Board Member Imam Siraj Wahaj, an un-indicted co-conspirator in the first World Trade Center bombing, has called for replacing the American government with an Islamic Caliphate, and warned that America will crumble unless it accepts Islam.

Rabih Haddad served as a CAIR Fundraiser. Haddad was co-founder of the Global Relief Foundation (“GRF”). GRF was designated by the US Treasury Department for financing the Al Qaeda and other terrorist organizations and its assets were frozen by the US Government on December 14, 2001.

 
Last edited:
Or you could call it espionage, if he was dressed in fatigues. ;)

Yeah, probably. Conspiracy theory?

You get kudos simply for mentioning Zoroastrians



Generally I think acts of war need to be perpetrated on behalf of a country, or at the very least (and a bit more murky sadly) a sizable group of some kind.

Contrary to the Armies recent advertising blitz, I don't think someone is truly an "Army of One"

:)
Well how do you draw the line between those who become extremists from reading the interwebz (A.Q.'s #1 recruiting tool) and those who are in the Kush mountains with The Base? Are both soldiers of AQ?

Yes, and Jews and Christians were forced to flee Arabia in the 7th century establishing the Holy Land of the Hijaz as off-limits to non-Muslims.
That is a lie.


Kafir in Arabic has two meanings: 1) a non-Muslim, a person who denies Allah or Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him); 2) ungrateful, a person who is not thankful to the favors of Allah. The second meaning can be also used for Muslims who do not show gratitude to Allah. Kafir in this meaning is the opposite of "shakir" (thankful). Christians and Jews are kuffar because they rejected the Prophethood of Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him). …​


Who is it that you are quoting?
However, kafir is now a derogatory term, and that is why I would encourage Muslims to use the term "non-Muslims" when referring to people of different faiths.

Who is the ego behind the lies?

You source an ONLINE fatwa service... and I fail? Hahahhahaha grow up.

It's like using Yahoo Answers as a source.

Masīḥī ~ Christian
Yahoudy ~ Jew

Keep your points. Don't ever impugn my knowledge again.

I'm sorry I was looking for the word that was used to describe both Jews and Christians.

The answer is Ahl al-Katrib and they're protected (in the Ummah) according to the word of Muhammad.
 
Last edited:

You don't seem to grasp the distinction between an organization and its members. The best way to understand this is not to copy-paste things, but to use your head.

CAIR is an organization founded by Hamas supporters which seeks to overthrow Constitutional government in the United States and replace it with an Islamist theocracy using our own Constitution as protection.

CAIR wishes nothing more than the implementation of Sharia Law in America.

I must have missed this in its mission statement.

There are plenty of things to criticize CAIR for. The fact that they speak out against terrorism in general and against this incident in particular is not one of them.
 
Back
Top Bottom