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Thread: 12 dead, as many as 31 injured in Fort Hood shootings

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    Re: 12 dead, as many as 31 injured in Fort Hood shootings

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Shaheen View Post
    So the point is how me as Muslim and Middle Eastern got no hatred to thousands miles away people while someone lives with them and wants them dead. There must be something wrong either with Americans or with the teachings they get over there , and I don't support the two opinions .
    I think it's always been easier to hate/kill the people who are near you than the far away stranger. That's why domestic violence is the most standard form of violent crime both in the U.S. and throughout the world.

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    Re: 12 dead, as many as 31 injured in Fort Hood shootings

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    You were in the military, why would his command staff ignore such obvious problems?
    I have no idea, the Army I served in didn't have officers who would ignore an obviously imbalanced soldier that they feared was an internal threat. Their excuse here appears to be that they were afraid they would be accused of religious discrimination and firing a doctor was simply too cumbersome of a process, so they sent him to Ft. Hood where he would become their issue to deal with.

    Officials considered kicking Hasan out of the program but chose not to partly because firing a doctor is a "cumbersome and lengthy" process that involves hearings and potential legal conflict, sources told NPR.

    Officials also believed they lacked solid evidence that Hasan was unstable and were concerned they could be accused of discriminating against him because of his Islamic identity or views.

    The concerns about Hasan's performance and religious views were shared with other military officials considering his assignment after he finished his medical training, and the consensus was to send the 39-year-old psychiatrist to Fort Hood, an official told the Associated Press.

    Hasan was characterized in the meetings as a mediocre student and lazy worker, a matter of concern among the doctors and staff at Walter Reed and the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences, a military medical school in Bethesda, Maryland, an official told The Associated Press.

    Fort Hood, one of the country's largest military installations, was considered the best assignment for Hasan because other doctors could handle the workload if he continued to perform poorly and his superiors could document any continued behavior problems, the official said.
    Last edited by Lerxst; 11-12-09 at 10:58 AM. Reason: Chronology mistake.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: 12 dead, as many as 31 injured in Fort Hood shootings

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    I have no idea, the Army I served in didn't have officers who would ignore an obviously imbalanced soldier that they feared was an internal threat. Their excuse here appears to be that they were afraid they would be accused of religious discrimination and firing a doctor was simply too cumbersome of a process, so they sent him to Ft. Hood where he would become their issue to deal with.
    So then, to some degree, political correctness aappears to have hampered the military's ability to respond to a person who should not be serving, and that ultimately unleashed this killer on his co-workers.

    I do think that religion and race have become those political footballs that no one wants to touch with a ten-foot pole. I think that at this point, a middle eastern muslim man is much less likely to be identified and fired for being loony toons than a white Christian man. Ditto a person of color. Mainly, because no one wants to be stigmatized as being racist these days, and because these individuals can come back and suggest that their firing was really race/religion related. It's really hard to rebound from being labeled a racist, professionally speaking, even if the person really is completely incompetent.

    That's a problem, from my perspective. It's a problem that is just as big as the whackadoos who think that all muslims are terrorists.

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    Re: 12 dead, as many as 31 injured in Fort Hood shootings

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Shaheen View Post
    Yes, the still unanswerable question is "How can my brothers and sisters avoid death and injury at the hands of some Muslim Americans who kill us in the name of their religion?"

    I couldn't answer that question simply because I don't know or I can't Imagine the real motives for them to do that .
    I always thought that the American-Muslims holds less or no hatred to the US since they do live there, and for me I see no problem with Americans (and so does the majority), or they aren't that bad that they got killed because a Muslim said so according to imaginary wrong thoughts in his mind or whatever .
    So the point is how me as Muslim and Middle Eastern got no hatred to thousands miles away people while someone lives with them and wants them dead. There must be something wrong either with Americans or with the teachings they get over there , and I don't support the two opinions .
    Thanks for your response. Peace.

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    Re: 12 dead, as many as 31 injured in Fort Hood shootings

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    So then, to some degree, political correctness aappears to have hampered the military's ability to respond to a person who should not be serving, and that ultimately unleashed this killer on his co-workers.

    I do think that religion and race have become those political footballs that no one wants to touch with a ten-foot pole. I think that at this point, a middle eastern muslim man is much less likely to be identified and fired for being loony toons than a white Christian man. Ditto a person of color. Mainly, because no one wants to be stigmatized as being racist these days, and because these individuals can come back and suggest that their firing was really race/religion related. It's really hard to rebound from being labeled a racist, professionally speaking, even if the person really is completely incompetent.

    That's a problem, from my perspective. It's a problem that is just as big as the whackadoos who think that all muslims are terrorists.
    To the bolded, absolutely not. Political correctness is an excuse for a dereliction of duty and some desire not make waves. There is no "political correctness" doctrine in the military, no policy or procedure exists that is used to determine when you do or do not report a threat based upon a possibility you might be accused of being discriminatory. You do your duty, if the accusations fly you address them with the facts.

    Those officials had a clear duty to act and they didn't because they were afraid someone might accuse them of being discriminatory. The facts would have supported them if they were indeed telling the truth. Career officers who didn't want to make waves and wanted to shovel a problem over to someone else. That's not PC, that's self serving cowardice of the worst kind.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: 12 dead, as many as 31 injured in Fort Hood shootings

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    Those officials had a clear duty to act and they didn't because they were afraid someone might accuse them of being discriminatory. The facts would have supported them if they were indeed telling the truth. Career officers who didn't want to make waves and wanted to shovel a problem over to someone else. That's not PC, that's self serving cowardice of the worst kind.
    Good point. However, having worked in a police agency, with distinct similarities to military organizations, it is my considered opinion that people are far less likely to take action against someone who is black/brown than someone who is white. Race/religion simply adds another layer of hassle to dealing with an inept or unacceptable employee. I think that this holds true in many other fields, as well, such as education.

    I agree with you, it is indeed a dereliction of duty, and yet, I think that pretending that it isn't commonplace is absurd.

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    Re: 12 dead, as many as 31 injured in Fort Hood shootings

    The problem with the PC excuse is that it is simply reflective of the person relying on it for their argument. It's either an intolerant scumbag masking his hatred of an entire group of people or it's someone with no spine to what needs to be done.

    PC is like the economy. It doesn't actually exist like some people put forward. PC is a social phenomenon created by racists on all sides riding the pendulum. It's a tool of opportunity. It can be a weapon to be used by intolerant assholes to blame whole groups of people for things and it can be used an excuse to explain someones failure to do what's right. "Oh I could report him, I'd be accused of being discriminatory and I don't want that!"

    Codswallop.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: 12 dead, as many as 31 injured in Fort Hood shootings

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    Codswallop.
    I agree with you, and also, ass-kicking word. We should all use it more often.

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    Re: 12 dead, as many as 31 injured in Fort Hood shootings

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Awesome, cool, you're on record of sacrificing military men and womens lives so you can get rid of Political Correctness. Thanks. That tells me all I need to know.
    The men and women have been slaughtered due to political correctness.

    The "sacrifice" has been made. How many more do we need to offer up before the bulls**t stops?

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    Re: 12 dead, as many as 31 injured in Fort Hood shootings

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    So essentially you're fully in favor of taxes going up, government debt going up, and still after that likely either government spending going up or large amounts of missing needed equipment for our troops that are going to be serving in the line of danger because you want to make a point about Political Correctness.

    How patriotic of you. Much more important to get political correctness out of the military than perhaps supplying body armor.
    So you're questioning his patriotism with strawmen? Seems to me the mods can say anything they want around here with impunity. Show me where are troops are not getting body armor.
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