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Israeli commandos seize weapon shipment from Iran bound for Hezbollah

And it is my fault that you dont look at the over all picture? A country has forced its way on to a ship under another country's flag in the waters of a 3rd country or at best in international waters and you have no problem with this just because it is Israel vs the Arabs? Pathetic. So you would have no problem the Arabs taking a ship bound for Israel with weapons from the US?
That someone would have a problem with preventing arms from reaching terrorists' hands it is itself immoral in insane levels.
 
There are pictures and videos that document the weapons transporting on the ship.
The crew of the ship has also admitted that there were weapons on that ship and said that they weren't allowed to check what's inside because that's pretty much how international trading law goes. (Only the port's authorities are allowed and are required by the law to search the cargo)

Can all be fabricated. That does not mean I think they are, just stating a fact. Again we are to believe the Israeli's version of events. The pictures were after all staged for the international media on a dockside in Israel. There was grainy black and white "footage" of the raid and the kicker is now that the official line is.. they "discovered" the weapons, not that they knew they were there.. that opens up a whole bunch of questions like.. should we accept any nation for doing random "checks" on ships in other nations waters/international waters without authorisation?

That you are willing to declare Israel as an automatic liar, ignore documentations, partake in outburst denial, and compare Israel to Iran and Syria - deals a fatal blow to your credibility in my eyes, and probably in the eyes of many others.

No, I question the documentations. Huge difference. I have seen the Israeli version and I have heard the Iranian/Syrian/Hisbollah version.. and I dont believe any of them further than I can throw them. Do I have a tad more belief in Israel than Iran/Syria/Hisbollah? yes I do, I will admit that, but that would still not change the fact that Israel yet again boarded another nations ship in a 3rd countries waters or international waters without any sort of authorisation from involved parties. This is piracy 101, regardless of who is doing it.

I wouldn't take your deceptive words for granted more than I would take Ahmedinejad's, Pete. ;)

That is up to you. Not my fault that you cant objectively look at the situation and support state sponsored piracy.

Listen, if the Israelis had permission from the Cypirots.. then I would have no problem with them doing what they did, even in international waters of Cyprus. But from what we know so far, no such permission or request was given by anyone, hence I will claim it was state sponsored piracy.
 
That someone would have a problem with preventing arms from reaching terrorists' hands it is itself immoral in insane levels.

Did I ever say that? The only ones claiming that the weapons were heading to terrorists is Israel. And since their credibility is only slightly higher than that of Iran, then sorry if I dont take their claims at face value.

IF they were weapons for terrorists, then good job, but that does still not excuse the high seas piracy. And that is the whole point. We have rules and laws that makes us different than the terrorists. Once we set aside even basic rules and laws then we are no better than the terrorists themselves and that is my problem with the whole situation.

For god sake, not even the US under BUSH did what the Israelis did. North Korea has been exporting weapons to Iran and others and the only thing the US and west did was to "shadow" the ships and make the world aware of them.
 
So once again we see these terrorist groups utilizing gaps in our regulatory seams to advance their cause. They hide their activities in the shadows. They use our laws against us. In this case, Iran rearming Hizbollah, by shipping weapons directly from International waters to Lebanon.

So yes, Israel may have violated laws to capture this ship. Is it in fact termed "high seas piracy"? Considering the cargo, I don't have a problem with it and if Israel needs to pay a fine of some kind, then it should do that.

I do think that shipping arms to a terrorist group is much, much, much more of a problem than any "high seas piracy" to stop it. It ought to be on the front page.
Seems to me that they gunrunners had to be breaking some kind of international law. I'd like to know what it was.
 
Seems to me that they gunrunners had to be breaking some kind of international law. I'd like to know what it was.

Oh they most likely did, IF we are to believe the Israeli version. The manifest stated civilian goods and no weapons or explosives. That in any nation is gun running not to mention a safety risk. While I dont think it is technically illegal in international waters, once the ship entered any national waters and especially a port then it would be breaking a bunch of laws. Which is why I dont understand why the IDF did not use this excuse with cooperation with the Cypriot government.../shrug, maybe we not heard the whole story yet.
 
Can all be fabricated. That does not mean I think they are, just stating a fact.
So could 9/11, but that doesn't mean that questioning the terrorist responsibility over it does not rightfully earn one the label of a lunatic.
Again we are to believe the Israeli's version of events.
Just like we believe any other Western nation when they report on events.
The pictures were after all staged for the international media on a dockside in Israel.
I was speaking about the film and pictures taken during the raid itself, although those pictures were obviously not staged as well.
There was grainy black and white "footage" of the raid and the kicker is now that the official line is.. they "discovered" the weapons, not that they knew they were there.. that opens up a whole bunch of questions like.. should we accept any nation for doing random "checks" on ships in other nations waters/international waters without authorisation?
That's just outburst retarded.
You think Israel simply plays Iny Miny Moe and randomly declares to raid a ship in international waters?
The Mossad and many other intelligence organizations were involved and have supplied the IDF with way-over sufficient information.
No, I question the documentations. Huge difference. I have seen the Israeli version and I have heard the Iranian/Syrian/Hisbollah version.. and I dont believe any of them further than I can throw them.
And that's why your credibility in my eyes is non-existent.
That you are willing to simply label documents as "fabricated" and Israel as "a liar".
There is no reason why I should take you seriously in any future debate.
Do I have a tad more belief in Israel than Iran/Syria/Hisbollah? yes I do, I will admit that, but that would still not change the fact that Israel yet again boarded another nations ship in a 3rd countries waters or international waters without any sort of authorisation from involved parties. This is piracy 101, regardless of who is doing it.

That is up to you. Not my fault that you cant objectively look at the situation and support state sponsored piracy.

Listen, if the Israelis had permission from the Cypirots.. then I would have no problem with them doing what they did, even in international waters of Cyprus. But from what we know so far, no such permission or request was given by anyone, hence I will claim it was state sponsored piracy.
You are objecting here to the act of preventing terrorists from putting their hands on weapons that will be used to murder civilians.
That is immoral in asinine levels, it is unexplainable and inexcusable, and shows a lot about your take on terror.
 
Some of our illustrious European members conveniently forget that UN Security Council Resolution 1701 forbids any and all weapon transfers to Hizb'Allah.

Intercepting this Iran/Hizb'Allah arms shipment is in full accordance with the UN cease-fire resolution.
 
Did I ever say that? The only ones claiming that the weapons were heading to terrorists is Israel. And since their credibility is only slightly higher than that of Iran, then sorry if I dont take their claims at face value.
That's where you're wrong, Israel's credibility isn't lower than any Western European nation in the world.

You are comparing Israel's credibility here to Iran, which pretty much is repeatedly engaged in blame-games and has declared more than once that Britian, Israel, the US and many other nations are involved in occasions that have had nothing to do with those nations.

And since you are indeed comparing between their credibility and claiming that Israel is only slightly higher than Iran's, your credibility is pretty much destroyed and zeroed.

Nevertheless, have fun with your denial.
IF they were weapons for terrorists, then good job, but that does still not excuse the high seas piracy. And that is the whole point. We have rules and laws that makes us different than the terrorists. Once we set aside even basic rules and laws then we are no better than the terrorists themselves and that is my problem with the whole situation.
Fifth freedom.
 
That's where you're wrong, Israel's credibility isn't lower than any Western European nation in the world.

If the UK and Israel said contradictory things, I'd be more inclined off the bat to believe the UK. Israel's credibility isn't as high as Europe's. Israel down there is part of the same damned problem. Palestine is essentially an open air prison, and if you don't understand how that would piss a population off then there's no way you'd ever look at this issue objectively.
 
If the UK and Israel said contradictory things, I'd be more inclined off the bat to believe the UK. Israel's credibility isn't as high as Europe's. Israel down there is part of the same damned problem. Palestine is essentially an open air prison, and if you don't understand how that would piss a population off then there's no way you'd ever look at this issue objectively.
What does this has to do with the Palestinians? :doh
I'm not even going to rebuttal your off-reality claims about the Palestinians here, as this is irrelevant to say the least.

Israel's credibility falls no short than that of any other Western nation in the world.
Unless you're willing to explain your damaged opinion, I have no reason to waste time on that.
 
What does this has to do with the Palestinians? :doh
I'm not even going to rebuttal your off-reality claims about the Palestinians here, as this is irrelevant to say the least.

Israel's credibility falls no short than that of any other Western nation in the world.
Unless you're willing to explain your damaged opinion, I have no reason to waste time on that.

Israel is not an innocent in the conflict with Palestine. They are doing some terrible things as well, bombing civilian targets just as Palestine does to Israel. Yet most people blanket dismiss the transgressions of Israel while rallying against Palestine. Your little rant here, you got it backwards. You should have to explain to me your damaged opinion, otherwise I have no reason to waste time on it. There is purposeful movement of people into scattered places around Palestine to prevent a two state solution, the movement of Palestinians is horrifically controlled and monitored, the lands the Palestinians are allowed to occupy are nothing better than open air prisons. Palestine is no innocent in this conflict, but it's not like it's 100% them either.

As I said, if you can't understand how brutal control of one's people on their land can piss an entire people off, there is no point in considering anything that comes out of your mouth as you prove yourself incapable of objectivity. Israel's credibility is well less than that of the Western World, and even Russia. I may give them a bit more credibility than China though.
 
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As I said before, the Palestinians have nothing to do with this argument.
But since you're so eager to make this another Israeli-Palestinian debate, I will have to point out at your delusional take on the situation here.
Israel is not an innocent in the conflict with Palestine. They are doing some terrible things as well, bombing civilian targets just as Palestine does to Israel.
I take it that you are from those people who believe that the NATO forces, the US and Israel are deliberately killing civilians in Gaza, Iraq and Afghanistan.
That's just unsupported and a demonetization of the truth.

Ignoring the fact that Israel the US and NATO would gain nothing from deliberately killing civilians, Israel has done more than required to look for the safety of the Gazan civilians during the operation, calling homes and dropping leaflets.
It is ridiculously ignorant to suggest that Israel was trying to target civilians while it was warning them before every strike.
Yet most people blanket dismiss the transgressions of Israel while rallying against Palestine. Your little rant here, you got it backwards. You should have to explain to me your damaged opinion, otherwise I have no reason to waste time on it.
Then please do not waste your time on me and refrain from sharing with me your damaged opinions, it would only do good to both of us it'd seem.
There is purposeful movement of people into scattered places around Palestine to prevent a two state solution, the movement of Palestinians is horrifically controlled and monitored, the lands the Palestinians are allowed to occupy are nothing better than open air prisons.
Open air prisons is a wrong term, prison is a place where prisoners live and the Palestinians are definitely not prisoners, unlike what you may claim.
Palestine is no innocent in this conflict, but it's not like it's 100% them either.
There is no such thing as "share of blame".
You do not hear about a "share of blame" between the US and Japan in their conflict during WWII.
As I said, if you can't understand how brutal control of one's people on their land can piss an entire people off, there is no point in considering anything that comes out of your mouth as you prove yourself incapable of objectivity. Israel's credibility is well less than that of the Western World, and even Russia. I may give them a bit more credibility than China though.
Since you cannot bring any logical argument to explain why Israel has a low credibility, there is no reason to consider anything that comes out of your mouth as the truth and your credibility is lower than that of China. :shrug:
 
Prison is a place where prisoners are to be held. But Palestine is treated as such. Constant surveillance, closed boarders, restrictive trading, military occupation, etc. The US and NATO may not get anything out of killing civilians, yet Israel has demonstrated no moral quarrels with doing just that. As Palestine hits civilian targets, so does Israel. If killing civilians is evil, as is often professed against the actions of terrorists, than Israel shares guilt. Israel has shown a willingness to kill 10's of civilians to get to 1 or 2 terrorists. They may not "purposefully" target civilians, but they don't exactly try to miss either. You show your own damaged opinion by blanket protecting. While other wars such as the US and Japan have come to an end, this conflict between Israel and Palestine has not. Japan attacked the US, the US put an end to the conflict. After enough time elapses however, people forget the original. Was it Palestine or Israel which attacked first? Who is at fault? When conflict runs too long, the only way to stop it is for both sides to acknowledge wrong doing and pledge to put it all behind them. In other words, Israel and Palestine have to grow up. Till then, I don't support the US spending a dime on either.

Because Israel is a biased force against an "enemy" they seek to get international sympathy for fighting, their motives thus become suspect. Since you have demonstrated a total and utter bias for Israel, unable to even acknowledge the wrongs committed (justified or not), there is no point in considering the tripe which escapes your mind. The garbage is horrifically biased, your inability to be objective makes what you say on this matter worthless tripe. Israel is not as credible as the West. They have obvious goals against a people and wish to play for public sympathy hoping all the while no one notes their own transgressions.
 
They may not "purposefully" target civilians, but they don't exactly try to miss either.
This is so much bs. Have you ever been in the military? Or are you another couch warrior?
 
Moderator's Warning:
Get this thread back on track. Weapons shipment interception.
 
This is so much bs. Have you ever been in the military? Or are you another couch warrior?

Yes, cause I definitely can't measure the outcome and form opinion. You have to be there first hand to know for sure, right? Definitely no form of information transfer these days. :roll:

And my original question on the matter stands. Where did Iran get those weapons from? If they made it, why print things in English? If we are to believe these really came from Iran.
 
So once again we see these terrorist groups utilizing gaps in our regulatory seams to advance their cause. They hide their activities in the shadows. They use our laws against us. In this case, Iran rearming Hizbollah, by shipping weapons directly from International waters to Lebanon.

So yes, Israel may have violated laws to capture this ship. Is it in fact termed "high seas piracy"? Considering the cargo, I don't have a problem with it and if Israel needs to pay a fine of some kind, then it should do that.

I do think that shipping arms to a terrorist group is much, much, much more of a problem than any "high seas piracy" to stop it. It ought to be on the front page.

Too bad Israel can't just send the missiles back to Iran.... one armed missile at a time, or maybe in salvos of ten?
 
Ikari, your take on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict shows great 'political immaturity'.
You complain about the road blocks and the checkpoints in the Palestinian territories, while not understanding the role those methods play in preventing terrorists from sneaking into Israel.

I do not expect you to understand what is terrorism, I do not expect you to understand what counter-terrorism is - I do expect you however to avoid making ignorant statements on issue you have no knowledge about.

You say that Israel kills civilians and has no problem to do so, that is wrong, civilian deaths are what used the most against Israel in the political and international ground and Israel is doing its best to avoid those incidents.

What one cannot do is to expect Israel not to fight terrorism, not to take out and drop bombs on terrorist targets that engage in the constant attacks on Israeli civilians.
This is illogical, this is ignorant.

What you are partaking in is simply an outright demonetization of Israel as a state and nation, declaring their goals as you see fit and ignoring the facts on the ground. (Leaflets, phone calls, etc)

As I said before, I don't see a need to waste time debating with a person that is only willing to demonize and not to take an objective look at the situation.

As the subject of this thread has nothing to do with the Palestinians, and since I've already made my points clear about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that you were so eager to bring into discussion, this would be the last post from me on that issue.

If you have something to add on the Iranian arms shipped to Hezbollah here feel free to do so, if you wish to partake in denial and declare it all as "lies" you are also free to do that.
You might as well join Pete here and say that the ship should not have been boarded, and that the arms should have been allowed to reach the terrorist's hands.
 
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Ikari, your take on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict shows great 'political immaturity'.

I think if there is great political immaturity, it is on the part of Israel and Palestine, not on my part. In, what half a century now, they have been unable to solve their problems. It's because each side now sees the other as initial aggressor and that excuses all their transgressions. The entire point is that Israel is not 100% innocent. They have acted in ways which causes more conflict, the same as Palestine. And the solution will not be reached until both sides can step back, agree that horrible things went down on both parties side, and that they must move on in a positive manner. Until both sides are mature enough to reach this state, the end of conflict will not come. And as such, I do not support spending time, money, and effort on two states having a spat against each other that they can't resolve. It's not unreasonable. You merely wish to portray it as unreasonable as it holds Israel accountable for their actions.

And my original question about the "Iranian" arms stands.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Apocalypse/Ikari - Final warning. Return to the OP topic.
 
If you seize it in US waters or "friendly" waters, as in allowed by the nation in question, then no problem.

But if you seize it in international waters or in another nations waters without permission, then yes it is high seas piracy.

Pete,

So how long have you been an attorney specializing in admiralty law? Help us by walking us through the treaties, statutes and international conventions that support your contention. Thanks for sharing your legal expertise.
 
The more interesting question is, why you want to play this down.

I have been waiting for a post of this caliber here on this forum for 3 months.

Thank you for rising so high above the garbage...
 
So now it is state sponsored high sea's piracy... nice.

I guess you weren't aware of the UN resolutions barring iranian exports of weapons?
 
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