Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

[aps]

PORTLAND, Maine - Maine voters repealed a state law Tuesday that would have allowed same-sex couples to wed, dealing the gay rights movement a heartbreaking defeat in New England, the corner of the country most supportive of gay marriage.

Gay marriage has now lost in every single state — 31 in all — in which it has been put to a popular vote. Gay-rights activists had hoped to buck that trend in Maine — known for its moderate, independent-minded electorate — and mounted an energetic, well-financed campaign.

With 87 percent of the precincts reporting, gay-marriage foes had 53 percent of the votes.

Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law - More politics- msnbc.com

Oh gosh. I am heartbroken and pissed about this. I really hoped this would not be repealed.

 

[PeteEU]

I just dont get it to be honest.

On one hand the US prides it self on freedom, liberty, equal rights and so on, and with the other hand it denies the very same thing to a minority of its population...

I guess soon we will see segregation laws proposed again in some states..

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

Fifty three percent. Compare that to what would have happened ten years ago and this is good news. Ten years from now, they will no longer have a majority.

This is only bad news if you believe that it is necessary for gay marriage to be legalized now. No matter how much I would like certain policies to become law, I believe that it is best for social institutions to change slowly, at a pace that the public can easily tolerate. Rapid, unpopular changes lead to public backlash and regression.

 

[Orion]

This is what happens when you have mob rule... but at least things are improving. The majority is no longer an overwhelming majority. Things are changing.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

This is what happens when you have mob rule...

Which is a pretty good translation of the root words that make up the word "democracy." It seems the only real difference between "mob rule" and "the will of the people" is whether or not we agree with the majority.

 

[Oftencold]

Whatever your position in the matter if you "don't get it" one can only conclude that you are a new arrival on this planet. Seriously.

Myself, I've said before that demanding that an ancient institution be changed instantly is a sure way to incite rigid opposition and long term resentment.

 

[PeteEU]

Whatever your position in the matter if you "don't get it" one can only conclude that you are a new arrival on this planet. Seriously.

Myself, I've said before that demanding that an ancient institution be changed instantly is a sure way to incite rigid opposition and long term resentment.

That is the problem. "An ancient institution" needs not to be changed at all. Churches and preachers can deny marrying gay people all they want, as it is a religious thing. If the gays want to get married in a church.. start your own church or find a preacher/church that is open to such things!

Now the legal aspect of marriage is not a religious thing. This has to do with taxes, inheritance and so on and that is all civilian law... heck even marriage is that these days too.. you need a licence for example and can skip the whole church thing if you want.

But the debate in the US (like it was in Europe) has been hijacked by especially the radical religious right and together with the radical gay movement, it has turned into something that it, it is in reality not.

 

[tumbleweed]

If the issue of allowing same sex marriage would have been presented to Maine voters in the form of a referendum question on a ballot before it was forced on Mainers from the legislature I believe the outcome would have been different.

I don't oppose gay marriage. What I was opposed to was legislation coming from lawmakers telling us once again that they are hell-bent on passing laws in Maine without voters being included in the decision making process.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

That is the problem. "An ancient institution" needs not to be changed at all. Churches and preachers can deny marrying gay people all they want, as it is a religious thing. ... Now the legal aspect of marriage is not a religious thing.

It is still a societal thing and a traditional thing. Society and tradition, like morality, are largely independent of religion and the ancient institution of marriage in Western society predates the introduction of Christianity to the Roman Empire. To my knowledge, marriage between members of the same sex has never been allowed in the West before the last decade of last century, regardless of the religion of the participants.

And the issue of whether homosexual unions should be recognized, encouraged, and granted legal benefits is far from incontrovertible even in the absence of religious arguments. Such a policy shift would have far-reaching civil and economic implications regardless of whether or not the various churches were involved.

I don't oppose gay marriage. What I was opposed to was legislation coming from lawmakers telling us once again that they are hell-bent on passing laws in Maine without voters being included in the decision making process.

I'm confused. Is the Maine legislature elected by the voters or not? If the law is to be determined by referendum, why go to the expense and the hassle of having an elected legislature at all?

 

[Alex]

If the issue of allowing same sex marriage would have been presented to Maine voters in the form of a referendum question on a ballot before it was forced on Mainers from the legislature I believe the outcome would have been different.

I don't oppose gay marriage. What I was opposed to was legislation coming from lawmakers telling us once again that they are hell-bent on passing laws in Maine without voters being included in the decision making process.

So now we have legislative activism?

Legislators are elected to create legislation, that's what they do. The voters were included in the decision making process by electing the legislators.

 

[Scorpion89]

I just dont get it to be honest.

On one hand the US prides it self on freedom, liberty, equal rights and so on, and with the other hand it denies the very same thing to a minority of its population...

I guess soon we will see segregation laws proposed again in some states..

First Off Peter shut the **** up you don't live in Maine nor in the United States so you have no ****ing idea what the hell your talking about. We the Citz. of Maine voted on this issue and decide that WE didn't want to have this law hence WE excerised OUR 1st Adm Rights. What ****ing part of that don't you understand oh I know US Constitution better then you Scorpion. maybe you should just stick to what the hell goes on in England and Europe from now on. Or get on a plane and move to Maine and learn something about us who live there.

 

[Scorpion89]

This is what happens when you have mob rule... but at least things are improving. The majority is no longer an overwhelming majority. Things are changing.

Mob rule huh really so question do you live in maine have you ever been to Maine I mean the real parts of Maine outside of Portland and Lewiston-Aurburn because as I've been trying to tell Jack is Maine is really a Red State with two rather large Blue Cities.

As usual you don't know what your talking about Mob Rule huh see unlike where your from Sir we don't like being told what we can and can't do hence we used OUR 1st Adm Rights had it put onto a Ballet and Voted with over 50% far from Mob Rule. Stick with what the hell goes on in Canada alright because you have no idea about what goes on in Maine.

 

[Elena]

Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

Isn't democracy a b*tch! :lol:

 

[Kal'Stang]

If the issue of allowing same sex marriage would have been presented to Maine voters in the form of a referendum question on a ballot before it was forced on Mainers from the legislature I believe the outcome would have been different.

I don't oppose gay marriage. What I was opposed to was legislation coming from lawmakers telling us once again that they are hell-bent on passing laws in Maine without voters being included in the decision making process.

So I'm assuming by this post you live in Maine? And that you voted to repeal this law? Just because some legislators already made it law without asking you? So though you don't care if gay's can get married you also don't mind trampling over them to "punish" the legislators?

And Alex is right. That is the legislators job.

 

[tumbleweed]

I'm confused. Is the Maine legislature elected by the voters or not? If the law is to be determined by referendum, why go to the expense and the hassle of having an elected legislature at all?

Yes they are, but they also from time to time take it upon themselves to pass legislation that hasn't had any input from their constituents. What this amounted to from my point of view was nobody asked me, or any other voters I'm aware of, if we supported same sex marriage or not.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

Isn't democracy a b*tch! :lol:

Yes. Yes, it is. Don't understand the appeal, myself.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Mob rule huh really so question do you live in maine have you ever been to Maine I mean the real parts of Maine outside of Portland and Lewiston-Aurburn because as I've been trying to tell Jack is Maine is really a Red State with two rather large Blue Cities.

As usual you don't know what your talking about Mob Rule huh see unlike where your from Sir we don't like being told what we can and can't do hence we used OUR 1st Adm Rights had it put onto a Ballet and Voted with over 50% far from Mob Rule. Stick with what the hell goes on in Canada alright because you have no idea about what goes on in Maine.

So I'm assuming by this post you live in Maine? And that you voted to repeal this law? Just because some legislators already made it law without asking you? So though you don't care if gay's can get married you also don't mind trampling over them to "punish" the legislators?

And Alex is right. That is the legislators job.

I think my post applies to you as well Scorp. And yes it is mob rule. Thats exactly what Democracy is about. Those who get the most votes gets put into office. The laws that get the most votes gets put into effect. Because it sure isn't the minority that gets their side elected or their laws put into effect.

 

[Scorpion89]

So I'm assuming by this post you live in Maine? And that you voted to repeal this law? Just because some legislators already made it law without asking you? So though you don't care if gay's can get married you also don't mind trampling over them to "punish" the legislators?

And Alex is right. That is the legislators job.

No it isn't the way it was done was skeaking and underhand and we mainer don't go for shot like that hence why it was put to a ballet. This isn't the first time that something like this got put to a ballet if you like I can list all sort of stuff that the Maine Legislation tried to pass as a law only to have it put to a Ballet and defeated.

Beside I take it you don't live in Maine either, because as I have been trying to tell many of my friends Maine really is a very Independet leaning towards a Red State if you throw out the two Cities I list in my above post. Go past Augusta and ask folks up in Rural and Western Maine how they feel.

 

[Scorpion89]

I think my post applies to you as well Scorp. And yes it is mob rule. Thats exactly what Democracy is about. Those who get the most votes gets put into office. The laws that get the most votes gets put into effect. Because it sure isn't the minority that gets their side elected or their laws put into effect.

No it's not Mob Rule see we decide that WE the Citz. of Maine want to decide what we wanted as a Law hence why it was put on he Ballet. The original Law was challange in State Court deemed Un-Constitutional and was put ona Ballet and voted on know Mob Rule at all.

 

[Kal'Stang]

No it isn't the way it was done was skeaking and underhand and we mainer don't go for shot like that hence why it was put to a ballet. This isn't the first time that something like this got put to a ballet if you like I can list all sort of stuff that the Maine Legislation tried to pass as a law only to have it put to a Ballet and defeated.

Beside I take it you don't live in Maine either, because as I have been trying to tell many of my friends Maine really is a very Independet leaning towards a Red State if you throw out the two Cities I list in my above post. Go past Augusta and ask folks up in Rural and Western Maine how they feel.

So it's ok to trample over someone just to try and teach the legislators a lesson? What is your stance on gay marriage?

And no I don't live in Maine. I do live in the US though so doubt that my values are all that different than yours when it comes to rights and knowing the Constitution.

 

[Elena]

First Off Peter shut the **** up you don't live in Maine nor in the United States so you have no ****ing idea what the hell your talking about. We the Citz. of Maine voted on this issue and decide that WE didn't want to have this law hence WE excerised OUR 1st Adm Rights. What ****ing part of that don't you understand oh I know US Constitution better then you Scorpion. maybe you should just stick to what the hell goes on in England and Europe from now on. Or get on a plane and move to Maine and learn something about us who live there.

Or maybe the time has come to invade Maine and spread some freedom from inhibitions along with tolerastia? What DoD thinks of that, have you got plans in place?

 

[Kal'Stang]

No it's not Mob Rule see we decide that WE the Citz. of Maine want to decide what we wanted as a Law hence why it was put on he Ballet. The original Law was challange in State Court deemed Un-Constitutional and was put ona Ballet and voted on know Mob Rule at all.

Just so you know I believe that we are using the term "mob rule" in it's slang equivalent. Which among it's various definations is "the common people; the masses; populace or multitude." At least I am. Though admittedly it does seem like you were upset at what the legislators in your state did so....

 

[tumbleweed]

So now we have legislative activism?

Legislators are elected to create legislation, that's what they do. The voters were included in the decision making process by electing the legislators.

Well, for me it was activism of sorts. Yes they are elected to create legislation, but occasionally in Maine we have laws coming out of Augusta that doesn't have the support of a majority of voters. The legislators who approved of same sex marriage in Maine obviously forgot to ask the voters how they felt about the issue before they voted on it.

Maine voters can tend be rebellious when they are told to accept something whether they like it or not.

 

[aps]

First Off Peter shut the **** up you don't live in Maine nor in the United States so you have no ****ing idea what the hell your talking about. We the Citz. of Maine voted on this issue and decide that WE didn't want to have this law hence WE excerised OUR 1st Adm Rights. What ****ing part of that don't you understand oh I know US Constitution better then you Scorpion. maybe you should just stick to what the hell goes on in England and Europe from now on. Or get on a plane and move to Maine and learn something about us who live there.

Post reported. I hope you get points for this. Show some class, Scorpion, will you?

 

[American]

This is what happens when you have mob rule... but at least things are improving. The majority is no longer an overwhelming majority. Things are changing.

Mob rule? WTF are you talking about?