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Thread: Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

  1. #971
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    Re: Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    First of all Marriage has been recognized as a right.
    Your argument on tiers of scrutiny already excluded fundamental rights, which is what marriage has been found to be, exactly.

    Marriage between 1 unmarried, unrelated, STD-free man of legal age of consent with 1 unmarried, unrelated, STD-free woman of legal age of consent.

    You're claiming that the right to marry just whomever you please is a right.

    That was never, ever a right. Ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    For instance. You don't have a right to have a driver's license. However, if the state made a law that said only white people can have driver's licenses, that law would be required to undergo Strict Scrutiny because it triggers a "suspect case", i.e., race. The state would have to show a compelling state interest.

    On the otherhand. Suppose the state said that at age 80 you are not allowed to drive.
    Age is not a suspect class...but has triggered the intermediate level in other cases. The government would have to show an important state interest in order for the law not to be struck down as discriminatory under the EP clause.
    You're changing the goal posts.

    First you were talking about rights, now you're changing your argument and discussing licenses.

    I was never discussing licenses to be right or wrong. I was only discussing rights.

    ***
    So now pro-gm wants to change marriage from a fundamental right, down to a civil privilege like driving.

    That's a reason to oppose gay-marriage, not support it.
    Last edited by Jerry; 11-11-09 at 09:48 PM.

  2. #972
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    Re: Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Your argument on tiers of scrutiny already excluded fundamental rights, which is what marriage has been found to be, exactly.

    Marriage between 1 unmarried, unrelated, STD-free man of legal age of consent with 1 unmarried, unrelated, STD-free woman of legal age of consent.

    You're claiming that the right to marry just whomever you please is a right.

    That was never, ever a right. Ever.



    You're changing the goal posts.

    First you were talking about rights, now you're changing your argument and discussing licenses.

    I was never discussing licenses to be right or wrong. I was only discussing rights.

    ***
    So now pro-gm wants to change marriage from a fundamental right, down to a civil privilege like driving.

    That's a reason to oppose gay-marriage, not support it.
    Wow....that is all over the place.

    and you didn't even address the very issue that you have been harping on.

    What you were claiming is that discrimination only exists when you are dealing with a fundamental right....remember that?
    Now do you understand that you were wrong?
    The license example was to show you that "discrimination" can exist even whe you aren't dealing with a right at all.

    Yes...I believe that marriage is a fundamental right, therefore any governmental restriction on that right must be backed up by a compelling state interest.
    What is the compelling state interest against gay marriage?
    There isn't one....which is why many anti-gay groups are hoping that the court won't apply strict scrutiny.
    But even under the lowest level...standard scrutiny....what legitimate state interest is there to justify the discrimination?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    What you were claiming is that discrimination only exists when you are dealing with a fundamental right....remember that?
    That's not something I ever said.

    I said without a fundamental right to marry the same-sex, denying same-sex marriage is not discrimination under the law.

    I said without a fundamental right to marry married persons, denying polygamy is not discrimination under the law.

    I said without a fundamental right to marry people who can not legally consent, denying so-called dependent 'marriage is not discrimination under the law.

    I said without a fundamental right to marry your immediate family, denying incest is not discrimination under the law.


    Without a fundamental right to own missiles, denying private ownership of missiles is not a violation of the 2nd Amendment.


    I agree that discrimination exists in many, many cases where fundamental rights are not an issue. That's why I never said anything like "discrimination only exists when you are dealing with a fundamental right".
    Last edited by Jerry; 11-11-09 at 10:29 PM.

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    Re: Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    That's not something I ever said.





    I never said anything like "discrimination only exists when you are dealing with a fundamental right".
    From post #904

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry
    It has to be a "fundamental right" to be "discrimination" under the law.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    From post #904



    Context FTW

    "It" = "same-sex marriage".

    "It" does not mean "just whatever disneydude wants to think about that Jerry never intended".

    Same-sex marriage has to be a "fundamental right" for same-sex marriage bans to be "discrimination" under the law.
    Last edited by Jerry; 11-12-09 at 12:17 AM.

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    Re: Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Context FTW

    "It" = "same-sex marriage".

    "It" does not mean "just whatever disneydude wants to think about that Jerry never intended".

    Same-sex marriage has to be a "fundamental right" for same-sex marriage bans to be "discrimination" under the law.
    Nope. Even if the court does not consider it a fundamental right triggering strict scrutiny, the court will either apply intermediate or standard....requiring the government to show either an important or legitimate state interest in the limitation.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Nope.
    Yup


    1234567890

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    Re: Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    One day I started to notice things about girls...and things about myself. That's called puberty, and that's when our sexual selves awaken...



    Nature can and will have anomalies. (You were close with the spelling) however, your sexual preference isn't innate. Are you suggesting we are born with other fetishes too?
    Yes, Epic, you know everything.

    Sexual preference isn't innate. Yeah, whatever you say.

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    Re: Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    Instead of telling someone they are "wrong" (which in matters of opinion only sets you up for a right humbling), ask them to "consider this". Does no one understand how to debate? or are we just arguing?

    I didn't realize this was ArguePolitics2.0
    Epic, you choose to argue in the manner in which you do. Don't tell others how to argue. Get over yourself.

    I am glad that disney completely ignored your comment. Good for you, disney! Keep up your great debating skills.

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    Re: Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

    Quote Originally Posted by aps View Post
    Yes, Epic, you know everything.

    Sexual preference isn't innate. Yeah, whatever you say.

    I'm glad we can agree.








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