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Thread: Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

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    Re: Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    You do understand that this is a completely false statement, proven false by data. But since I have not seen you produce one shred of substantiation for your position, let's see some. Please provide research/data/links demonstrating that gay couples are incapable of bringing up a balanced individual.

    And, for those of you who have seen me debate this topic before...you know what's coming next.
    I will tell you what will come next: you will make a monumental attempt to turn on your brain power while simultaneously accessing through your computer (going to the library is an alternative) the data on the psychological damage to the child of one-sex parent upbringing; and if you feel up for it, you can even venture into realm of gay parents upbringing, but due to politically correct nazi censorship you will have to look for that information mostly outside of languages of countries affected by cancer of political correctness.

    Good luck, captain. Don't give up easy.

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    Re: Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion89 View Post
    Here let me end this debate it really doesn't matter if a Gay Couple can or can't raise a child what this vote came down to was the Elected officials in the State of Maine decide to enacted a Law with-out the Citz. of Maine's imput we the Citz said woh not so fast folks. Got it put onto the Ballet and we the Citz of Maine used OUR 1ST ADM. RIGHTS AND VOTED.
    And regardless of whether I agree with that vote or not, you are correct. What occurred fits in with how government in this country works. Checks and balances.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

    Quote Originally Posted by Elena View Post
    I will tell you what will come next: you will make a monumental attempt to turn on your brain power while simultaneously accessing through your computer (going to the library is an alternative) the data on the psychological damage to the child of one-sex parent upbringing; and if you feel up for it, you can even venture into realm of gay parents upbringing, but due to politically correct nazi censorship you will have to look for that information mostly outside of languages of countries affected by cancer of political correctness.

    Good luck, captain. Don't give up easy.
    No, what will happen is that I will shred your position with tons of information from legitimate sources, demonstrating that your position is a ridiculous fallacy, presented by those who can only see their closed-minded little agenda. Then you will cry and whine and demonstrate that I am correct or you will present data that is invalid, methodologically poorly constructed, or from some religious fundamentalist website that produced opinion, not data. You have nothing. But please...post your links of substantiation...if you can. But, you know...and I know...you've got nothing.

    Come on, Elena. Show us there is more to you then pompous statements vainly searching for a relevant position.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

    I agree with that stance, but don't believe there's any legitimate consensus in the empirical literature that you speak of, and there is available research would seem to support the premise that an environment with homosexual parents is inferior to an environment with heterosexual parents. For example, we have Cameron's Gay fathers' effects on children: a review.

    Extrapolating results from studies of lesbians' children to gays' children and assertions of "no risk to children as a result of growing up in a family with 1 or more gay parents" are questioned. A review of 9 studies gave evidence that gays' children were (a) more apt to adopt homosexual interests and activities, (b) more apt to report sexual confusion, (c) more apt to be socially disturbed, (d) more apt to abuse substances, (e) less apt to get married, (f) more apt to have difficulty in attachment and loving relationships, (g) less religious and more unconventionally religious, (h) more apt to have emotional difficulties, (i) more frequently exposed to parental molestation, and (j) prone to more frequent sexual acting out.
    And we can consult Schumm's Re-evaluation of the "no differences" hypothesis concerning gay and lesbian parenting as assessed in eight early (1979-1986) and four later (1997-1998) dissertations:

    Academic and policy effects of eight early dissertations on gay and lesbian parenting are discussed with a focus on their having been cited at least 234 times in over 50 literature reviews, beginning with Gottman in 1989 and 1990. Most literature reviews, referencing these eight early dissertations and agreeing with Gottman's early conclusions, have reiterated the theme that parenting by gay men or lesbians has outcomes no different than parenting by heterosexual parents. Here it is proposed that certain potential adverse findings may have been obscured by suppressor effects which could have been evaluated had multivariate analyses been implemented. Further, several adverse findings were detected by reanalyzing data where sufficient information was yet available. Some of the dissertations' results (absent controls for social desirability and other differences between homosexual and heterosexual parents) supported the 2001 "no differences" hypothesis discussed by Stacey and Biblarz. Yet, differences were also observed, including some evidence in more recent dissertations, suggesting that parental sexual orientation might be associated with children's later sexual orientation and adult attachment style, among other outcomes. Odds ratios associated with some of the apparent effects were substantial in magnitude as well as statistically significant. Also, more recent research on gay and lesbian parenting continues to be flawed by many of the same limitations as previous research in this area of study, including overlooked suppressor effects.
    Beyond that, I would suggest that earlier research supported these findings to some extent also, but that this was suppressed by politically motivated interests. For example, we can refer to Stacey and Biblarz's [How] does the sexual orientation of parents matter?:

    Opponents of lesbian and gay parental rights claim that children with lesbigay parents are at higher risk for a variety of negative outcomes. Yet most research in psychology concludes that there are no differences in developmental outcomes between children raised by lesbigay parents and those raised by heterosexual parents. The analysis here challenges this defensive conceptual framework and analyzes how heterosexism has hampered intellectual progress in the field. The authors discuss limitations in the definitions, samples, and analyses of the studies to date. Next they explore findings from 21 studies and demonstrate that researchers frequently downplay findings indicating difference regarding children's gender and sexual preferences and behavior that could stimulate important theoretical questions.
    That said, it's still a difficult area and we also must consider whether active discrimination against these parenting arrangements may have been the primary cause of the problems observed rather than inherent deficiencies. My own ideological position is in conflict with the premise that homosexual parenting is more harmful and I'd greatly appreciate identification of specific methodological deficiencies or errors in the research presented or provision of clearly superior empirical evidence, as with the superiority of Hotz et al.'s natural experiment over cross-sectional analysis, for example.

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    Re: Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    And regardless of whether I agree with that vote or not, you are correct. What occurred fits in with how government in this country works. Checks and balances.
    Thanks CC it's funny all of my Gay Friends in Maine just don't understand they are all pissed off over the VOTE and I keep telling them why you got what you were screaming for a Vote so it didn't go your way oh well but please stop bitching about it because the Citz. of Maine used their 1st Adm Right . Hell I told one of them lastnight one year ago on Tuesday I didn't get my way on how I voted for the person in the White House but see we all voted so I have no reason to bitch over that part of it so these idiots have no right to bitch over the fact it was voted on.

    Everything else in this thread really has nothing to do with the plain and simple truth and that is The Citz. of Maine used their Constitutional Rights and voted. The real discuss should be why wasn't this put on the ballet in the first place.

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    Re: Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

    And in any case, the more your society submerges into political correctness, the more it destroys your moral principles and boundaries along with the very fabric of traditional family upbringing -- the core of every society, the sooner your society will destroy itself. Rome fell when its prominent citisens lost their moral compass and destroyed their own families.

    When native Brits complain their country is becoming overtaken by foreigners, I say, what do you want? The newcomers from traditional societies hold onto their family values, they support their family members no matter how far removed, they bring up their children with a sense of purpose and responsibility, they install in their kids the idea of respect for the rules and traditions and culture...

    While the natives threw out of the window all traditional values, they haven't got a clue about their culture, they have no drive to succeed through study, they make sure their kids fend for themselves as soon as they can legaly be pushed out of their home, and the kids in turn shove their parents into old people's homes as soon as the parents become too old or sick to look after themselves; they grow up with individualistic mindset where anything outside their immediate possesion doesn't matter; and with a thought that norm is what they want at any given time.

    Western societies already became an object of derision and a laughing stock among the people of traditional societies.

    As I already said, you embrace political correctness -- it's your problem, your funeral.
    Last edited by Elena; 11-05-09 at 07:01 AM.

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    Re: Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Come on, Elena. Show us there .
    Ask your wife to show you.

    Am I correct you are not going to start using your brain or do any research yourself? What a surprise!

    I'll repeat specially for you:

    And in any case, the more your society submerges into political correctness, the more it destroys your moral principles and boundaries along with the very fabric of traditional family upbringing -- the core of every society, the sooner your society will destroy itself. Rome fell when its prominent citisens lost their moral compass and destroyed their own families.

    When native Brits complain their country is becoming overtaken by foreigners, I say, what do you want? The newcomers from traditional societies hold onto their family values, they support their family members no matter how far removed, they bring up their children with a sense of purpose and responsibility, they install in their kids the idea of respect for the rules and traditions and culture...

    While the natives threw out of the window all traditional values, they haven't got a clue about their culture, they have no drive to succeed through study, they make sure their kids fend for themselves as soon as they can legaly be pushed out of their home, and the kids in turn shove their parents into old people's homes as soon as the parents become too old or sick to look after themselves; they grow up with individualistic mindset where anything outside their immediate possesion doesn't matter; and with a thought that norm is what they want at any given time.

    As I already said, you embrace political correctness -- it's your problem, your funeral.

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    Re: Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    I agree with that stance, but don't believe there's any legitimate consensus in the empirical literature that you speak of, and there is available research would seem to support the premise that an environment with homosexual parents is inferior to an environment with heterosexual parents. For example, we have Cameron's Gay fathers' effects on children: a review.



    And we can consult Schumm's Re-evaluation of the "no differences" hypothesis concerning gay and lesbian parenting as assessed in eight early (1979-1986) and four later (1997-1998) dissertations:



    Beyond that, I would suggest that earlier research supported these findings to some extent also, but that this was suppressed by politically motivated interests. For example, we can refer to Stacey and Biblarz's [How] does the sexual orientation of parents matter?:



    That said, it's still a difficult area and we also must consider whether active discrimination against these parenting arrangements may have been the primary cause of the problems observed rather than inherent deficiencies. My own ideological position is in conflict with the premise that homosexual parenting is more harmful and I'd greatly appreciate identification of specific methodological deficiencies or errors in the research presented or provision of clearly superior empirical evidence, as with the superiority of Hotz et al.'s natural experiment over cross-sectional analysis, for example.
    Interesting, yet inaccurate. Stacey and Biblarz have been taken out of context so often, and used incorrectly towards non-support of the equivalency position, that Stacey has commented on this inaccuracy. Further, the studies that I have read and cited use clear, valid methodology; those that indicate differences do not. Cameron's study, for example not only presents a correlation, not a causastion, but has been debunked several times by other studies. Point one is a great example: "more apt to adopt homosexual interests and activities". Studies DO NOT show that...Cameron takes the findings out of context and re-words them and presents no clear definition of what a "homosexual interest or activiity is"...a pretty subjective concept. What the studies do find is that children of homosexual parents are less likely to be intolerant of homosexual interests and activities. They do NOT find that children of homosexual couples are more likely to be homosexual, which is what Cameron's wording implies. This is dishonest reporting of research, and many of the "anti-" research studies, or those attempting to debunk the "pro" studies are guilty of this.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

    Quote Originally Posted by Elena View Post
    Ask your wife to show you.

    Am I correct you are not going to start using your brain or do any research yourself? What a surprise!

    I'll repeat specially for you:

    And in any case, the more your society submerges into political correctness, the more it destroys your moral principles and boundaries along with the very fabric of traditional family upbringing -- the core of every society, the sooner your society will destroy itself. Rome fell when its prominent citisens lost their moral compass and destroyed their own families.

    When native Brits complain their country is becoming overtaken by foreigners, I say, what do you want? The newcomers from traditional societies hold onto their family values, they support their family members no matter how far removed, they bring up their children with a sense of purpose and responsibility, they install in their kids the idea of respect for the rules and traditions and culture...

    While the natives threw out of the window all traditional values, they haven't got a clue about their culture, they have no drive to succeed through study, they make sure their kids fend for themselves as soon as they can legaly be pushed out of their home, and the kids in turn shove their parents into old people's homes as soon as the parents become too old or sick to look after themselves; they grow up with individualistic mindset where anything outside their immediate possesion doesn't matter; and with a thought that norm is what they want at any given time.

    As I already said, you embrace political correctness -- it's your problem, your funeral.
    I've done the research and have plenty to present. But you presented a position...a false one, but a position nonetheless. It is YOUR job to provide substantiation for it...not mine. If you cannot, that's fine. Just admit that you have nothing but pompous words that have no relevant facts to back them, and we can ignore your irrelevant and foolish statements. Of course, if you want to back such erroneous thoughts THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM AND YOUR FUNERAL.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    No, what will happen is that I will shred your position with tons of information from legitimate sources, demonstrating that your position is a ridiculous fallacy, presented by those who can only see their closed-minded little agenda. Then you will cry and whine and demonstrate that I am correct or you will present data that is invalid, methodologically poorly constructed, or from some religious fundamentalist website that produced opinion, not data. You have nothing. But please...post your links of substantiation...if you can. But, you know...and I know...you've got nothing.

    Come on, Elena. Show us there is more to you then pompous statements vainly searching for a relevant position.
    When this many people in one thread keep telling Elena that she's incorrect and asking her to please shed light on her positions with evidence to substantiate these positions and yet she continues to claim she is RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT and we are all WRONG WRONG WRONG without providing any evidence to substantiate her positions and in a way that only an insecure bully knows how ("You're all a bunch of idiots, and I am omniscient"), something is not right here. That something is Elena.

    P.S. What kind of intelligent person says, "It's your funeral"?
    Last edited by aps; 11-05-09 at 07:12 AM.

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