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Thread: Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

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    Re: Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Whew, it's impossible to get the point across. "
    So what it's going to be, "both" as you said, or "plurality" as others say?

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    Re: Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

    Quote Originally Posted by Elena View Post
    What declaration by Southern states preceded the war?
    Well there is a very long list but off the top of my head here are just a few, Wilmot Proviso, Kansas-Nebraska Act, Fugitive Slave Act,Lecompton Constitution,Ostend Manifesto and the 1860 Election leading to seven Southern States declairing session from the USA

    Quote Originally Posted by Elena View Post
    When slavery was abolished in the US?
    As already posted else where in this thread Slavery in the North for the most part had already been outlawed but you seem to have missed that part. As for when Slavery was abolished well that would be Sept. 22 1862 then in 1865 the 13th Adm was passed but it wasn't till the 14th Adm being passed in 1868 then Slavery was officially dead in the United States

    Quote Originally Posted by Elena View Post
    When did the war begin, and when did it end?
    Well if you want the actual shooting War then you have to say Nov. 22 1855 when the Wakarusa War Started the first Confederate shots were fired April 12 1861 at Fort Sumter the War officially was over in on Nov. 6 1865 when the Confederate ship CSS Shenandoah surrender in Liverpool England.

    So do you still want to discuss the US Civil War or you ready to admit that you really have no clue about the US Civil War.

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    Re: Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion89 View Post

    the 1860 Election leading to seven Southern States declairing session from the USA

    As for when Slavery was abolished well that would be Sept. 22 1862 then in 1865 the 13th Adm was passed but it wasn't till the 14th Adm being passed in 1868 then Slavery was officially dead in the United States

    the first Confederate shots were fired April 12 1861 at Fort Sumter the War officially was over in on Nov. 6 1865 when the Confederate ship CSS Shenandoah surrender in Liverpool England.

    So do you still want to discuss the US Civil War or you ready to admit that you really have no clue about the US Civil War.
    No, because you already said it all:

    in 1860 Southern States declaired session from the Union;
    in 1861 the war begun;
    as for slavery, it existed way into after the war.

    If freeing slaves was really an issue what was stopping the North to abolish it prior to the war?

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    Re: Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

    ****, Just lost my whole reply because the idiot blackberry designers thought putting the back and delete key on the same button was a smart idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Then there's no problem with them simply being married.
    No, no problem. Except its not legally recognized. That requires passing a law.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Yes, it's called making same sex marriage legal.
    I agree. Get it passed as law in your state.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Really, why not? It's not like you have to get married if you don't want to.
    Personally I don't think anyone but those with dependents should get tax benefits.
    Also, I think gays should have the expediant government process of marriage that heteros get. I've voted for it everytime its come up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    But if it's offered to one group, but not another, it's discriminatory and hence probably in violation of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Fourteenth Amendment.
    Please cite the clause it is in violation of then. There is no violation.

    Discrimination is legal. We do it for many laws: medicare, social security, drinking age, tax bracket, citizenship, etc.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

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    Re: Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

    Quote Originally Posted by Elena View Post
    No, because you already said it all:

    in 1860 Southern States declaired session from the Union;
    in 1861 the war begun;
    as for slavery, it existed way into after the war.

    If freeing slaves was really an issue what was stopping the North to abolish it prior to the war?
    See here is the problem it's not that simple all of item went into the Civil War do you know any History of the Civil War I'm not trying to be arse I 'm trying to understand your background.

    Yes in 1860 Seven Southern State declaired session but that was far from the start of it all, you have to go back and understand the dynamics of the makeup of the USA during that time period. All the items I listed had some sort of direct effect on what happen in the 1860 Elections.

    No the War actually started in 1855 once again you lack of knowledge on the subject is showing.

    The North did abolish Slavery in the North but you do understand we have a Federal Govn. which choice not to Abolish Slavery, see there is this thing called the 10th adm. which the Northern State's used to created there own Slave Laws hence why they got around Federal Laws.

    So I ask again do you really want to discuss the US Civil War if so I suggest you bone up on the subject before we start.

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    Re: Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

    I still didn't get answers to my question "Does the expression "plurality of people" exist?"

    Well, it doesn't. Why? Because a term "plurality" can not be used outside of describing particulars of your voting system. As I pointed out right at the start of our argument, you use the words "majority" and "plurality" as terminology tied to your voting system. I use these words in their common definition. And in common definition both of them mean "greater number".

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    Re: Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion89 View Post
    See here is the problem it's not that simple all of item went into the Civil War do you know any History of the Civil War I'm not trying to be arse I 'm trying to understand your background.

    The North did abolish Slavery in the North but you do understand we have a Federal Govn. which choice not to Abolish Slavery, see there is this thing called the 10th adm. which the Northern State's used to created there own Slave Laws hence why they got around Federal Laws.
    I understand that civil wars are never simple; I also understand that skimershes were common well before the war actually begun...

    "The North did abolish slavery, but not really, because in fact it was abolished years after the war, all because a Federal Govn. and Federal Laws, etc., etc.," THE NORTH MADE DESCISION TO GO TO WAR for the sake of abolition of slavery, but it could not make a descision to change few laws (on its own territories!!!) that at that time were very new as was the country itself??!! Please, don't.

    But when I hear that your civil war was about noble agenda of freeing the slaves, I feel compelled to ask why didn't the North abolish slavery until after the war, if that was the reason it started the war in the first place?
    Last edited by Elena; 11-04-09 at 08:19 PM.

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    Re: Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

    When politically correct brigade comes across rejection of their dogmas, all Ikaris, apses, Catzes and hazlnuts mob together; and when they run out of arguments (about the third page of this thread) they resort to personal attacks – the lowest of the low techniques in order to win an argument (so common among politicos).

    Catz, you were jumping out of your skirt calling to protect peoples rights and spread democracy in Iran, yet you would not recognise democracy if it came and hit you on a head! Democracy is based on principles of freedom: freedom to have and express one’s opinion; freedom to disagree; freedom to defend your views by means of voting. But when you are faced with people rejecting politically correct dogmas you adhere to, you and the likes of you howl on every corner of “injustices” and the “bigotry” of your opponents.

    If you are so democratic, why do you deny the right of those who oppose your views to do so and to win in a fair democratic vote? Is it the case, that politically correct gestapo recognises and promotes democracy only when it supports politically correct agenda?

    You lot eroded the very principles of what you profess to hold dear – democratic freedoms. Pathetic.

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    Re: Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

    Actual "freedom" means there are things which no majority can vote to deny you.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Maine voters repeal gay-marriage law

    Quote Originally Posted by Elena View Post
    I still didn't get answers to my question "Does the expression "plurality of people" exist?"

    Well, it doesn't. Why? Because a term "plurality" can not be used outside of describing particulars of your voting system. As I pointed out right at the start of our argument, you use the words "majority" and "plurality" as terminology tied to your voting system. I use these words in their common definition. And in common definition both of them mean "greater number".
    Of course the expression "plurality of the people" exists. A google search brings up over 12 million hits. As to the rest ...


    What you said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Elena View Post
    So, who wins in the end: a candidate with the MAJORITY vote, or the one with the MINORITY vote?
    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    Sometimes a candidate with a plurality vote wins. (Not a majority.)

    You then proceeded to march thru pages of silliness, failing to provide a link to your definition page (even after being asked four? times). Please provide your link. I'm confident even your own source will prove you wrong.

    A plurality can exist without a majority existing. It's quite simple.


    As to the conversation that preceeded it, Ikari was absolutely right. Minority rights are not less than majority rights. They are equal. There have been occasions in our history where minority rights have been trampled, you can find them by finding cases where the Supreme Court has overturned itself. However, those cases represent wrongs righted, they do not mean that minority rights are not equal to majority rights.

    As someone said, majority wishes prevail; unless they trample on minority rights.
    Last edited by jackalope; 11-04-09 at 08:40 PM.

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