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Thread: Iraqi woman, 20, dies; police in Arizona say father ran her over

  1. #31
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    Re: Iraqi woman, 20, dies; police in Arizona say father ran her over

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Let's say that 20 years down the road, we've developed a technology that allows us to cure most diseases. You have a child who is sick, so this is of great comfort to you. The only problem is that in order to get the parts for this cure, you have to donate an egg, which is then fertilized and grown until its 8 months and 29 days old. Then, the fetus is torn into pieces and used for parts to help treat your current child.

    Now, I don't know about your views, but I'm sure you can imagine that some people would have a problem with that. If they refused to go through that process, and as a result, their first child died, does that make them murderers?
    Too, you have the examples of, say, deaf or blind parents who take steps to ensure that their children are also deaf or blind, out of a sense of "community."
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    Re: Iraqi woman, 20, dies; police in Arizona say father ran her over

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    These are some sick bastards who would rather kill their own flesh and blood because they don't agree with how they act or dress. I myself had a girlfriend, Turkish sunni, who was very beautiful. Her father after finding out we were dating for over a year, threatened her life and her sister's life if she didn't break it off with me. The guy was a raving lunatic. This happens more than is let on - and we only hear about those that actually get killed. The one's that are mentally or physically abused or threatened we don't hear about.

    Unfortunately there's no way to weed these idiots out of the country. It's a shame. If this dope wanted his family to live like Iraqi's he should have mustered up some courage and gone to another Muslim country or stayed in Iraq. But the coward didn't have courage and could only kill his daughter. Hope he stays in jail a long long time and is tormented every hour of every day.
    You know, the irony here is we forget that bigotry and racism isn't limited to just black and white, or Mexican versus American. Such nonsense happens all the time no matter what the racial/religious divide. Many Middle-Easterners (primarily males) still believe that mixing races (nevermind religious believes) is a disgrace! Take, for example, if I, as an African-American male, were a member of the Nation of Islam in America and I were dating this man's daughter. Do you think her father would allow the relationship to continue just because we practised the same religion - Islam? No! He'd likely be against the relationship first and foremost because I am black and would likely find every excuse in the book to tear the relationship apart on racial lines instead of acknowledging we share the same faith which would certainly be a feather in my cap...if that were the case.

    But alas, I am a Christain, so...

    This poor woman didn't die because she loved the wrong guy or because she became too Americanized. She died because her father was stupid and couldn't see past his one racial and cultural hatred. Get a clue all ye foreigners who wish to relocated their family to America: If you have young children, expect that eventually they will become Americanized. If you come to America, expect to be obsorbed into American culture. If you are concerned that somewhere along the way your family values will be lost, you've got two choices:

    1) Find a way to blend both cultures without losing all traces of your own, or;
    2) Move back to where you came from.

    Because no matter how hard you try to shelter your younglings, eventually they will begin to embrace some aspects of American culture. And if you really didn't want your children to be a part of this country's culture, you shouldn't have come here in the first place. It's just that simple.

    I want to make one thing perfectly clear: The same would apply in the reverse. If I decided to move to Japan, for example, I'd better expect that in order to live there I'd have to embrace Japanesse culture. So, if I'm not prepared for that or I find I can't handle it, it's in my best interest to go back to where I came from.

  3. #33
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    Re: Iraqi woman, 20, dies; police in Arizona say father ran her over

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Arcana, The Christians you speak of I believe were prosecuted and sentenced as well were they not? As in the cases of Latin America, and African children that met these fates were also not in a land or culture that had specific laws in place governing behavior concerning this. We are a land of law, and as such I don't think anyone can make the case that culture over rules law? Moral equivalence will not suffice either. Because just as ignorance in no defense in the eyes of the court, neither is your moral equivalence. In in fact is rather disgusting to suggest.

    If this family wanted a pure life in the eyes of Allah, then there are plenty of Muslim countries that have the luxuries of the western world that they could have chosen to live. But they didn't, they came here, and as such are bound by our law.


    j-mac
    I think you misunderstand my position in this thread.

    I never said that these people should not be prosecuted to the full extent of the law of the land they reside in. You do the crime, you absolutely do the time and i don't give a rat's ass what invisible friend in the sky you pray to or what cultural or religious excuse you claim to have.

    My problem in this discussion is more with the idea of a few crazy Muslims killing their daughters leading to the flawed conclusion that ALL Muslims are the same. They're not. It's a clearly tribal thing.
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    Re: Iraqi woman, 20, dies; police in Arizona say father ran her over

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Let's say that 20 years down the road, we've developed a technology that allows us to cure most diseases. You have a child who is sick, so this is of great comfort to you. The only problem is that in order to get the parts for this cure, you have to donate an egg, which is then fertilized and grown until its 8 months and 29 days old. Then, the fetus is torn into pieces and used for parts to help treat your current child.

    Now, I don't know about your views, but I'm sure you can imagine that some people would have a problem with that. If they refused to go through that process, and as a result, their first child died, does that make them murderers?
    This scenario treads dangerously into the abortion debate and is a far cry from simply providing your child with medication to treat her diabetes so she will not die.

    But I will answer your question. From a purely personal point of view, these parents will only be murderers if they do agree to tear an 8 month old fetus to pieces. I have a very hard time imagining that your scenario will ever come to be. The abortion laws of practically every country on the planet would have to be completely overhauled. This opens up a whole new can of worms.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

  5. #35
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    Re: Iraqi woman, 20, dies; police in Arizona say father ran her over

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    I think you misunderstand my position in this thread.

    So you weren't saying that murders committed by American, or Christian, or any other group were equal to this?


    Hmmmm.....So when you say this:

    The Muslim who kills his daughter or the Christian who kills his child to cast out the demon believes he's doing god's work.
    You don't really believe that they are similar?


    I never said that these people should not be prosecuted to the full extent of the law of the land they reside in. You do the crime, you absolutely do the time and i don't give a rat's ass what invisible friend in the sky you pray to or what cultural or religious excuse you claim to have.

    That's right. You never said it. Why not?


    My problem in this discussion is more with the idea of a few crazy Muslims killing their daughters leading to the flawed conclusion that ALL Muslims are the same. They're not. It's a clearly tribal thing.

    Do you think the numbers of "honor killings" in Traditional Muslim countries is under reported, or about right?


    j-mac
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  6. #36
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    Re: Iraqi woman, 20, dies; police in Arizona say father ran her over

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So you weren't saying that murders committed by American, or Christian, or any other group were equal to this?


    Hmmmm.....So when you say this:



    You don't really believe that they are similar?
    When I say that you misunderstand my position in this thread I'm not talking about how equal murder is to murder. I'm talking about your implication that I'm trying to make excuses for anyone's murderous actions.


    That's right. You never said it. Why not?
    Do I have to make it clear that murderers should be prosecuted no matter what excuse they claim to have for their actions? Okay, then. I'll keep that in mind in the future. I guess I've been over-estimating the intelligence of the posters in this forum.

    Tell me now, j-mac, did I say at any point in this discussion that they should NOT be prosecuted? You're focusing on a discussion that was not taking place. We were not talking about the legal consequences of murder. We were talking about implementing new immigration policies targeting an entire ethnic/religious group just because of the actions of a few.

    Do you think the numbers of "honor killings" in Traditional Muslim countries is under reported, or about right?


    j-mac
    Honor killings are under-reported in ALL countries where they are practiced. Not just the Muslim ones. It still doesn't change the fact that in many parts of the world these killings are not culturally acceptable, regardless of the majority Muslim demographic.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

  7. #37
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    Re: Iraqi woman, 20, dies; police in Arizona say father ran her over

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Religion of Peace...oh yeah!
    This honor killing crap ( there is hardly a better word for it) is not just Iraqi and maybe not exclusively Muslim but it is very much a predominate 'hobby' in the MiddleEast. Since Mulimism started in and spread out of the MiddleEast even far flung Muslim outposts such as Chechenya are restoring "honor" killings.
    “I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us “ f107HyperSabr

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    Re: Iraqi woman, 20, dies; police in Arizona say father ran her over

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    So how do you tell the ones who won't ever fit in from the ones who will?

    Please stop using this tragedy to feed your misguided conclusions. Just because one crazy guy ran over his daughter doesn't mean all Iraqi immigrants will.
    Not just Iraqi immigrants but MiddleEastern immigrants have the honor killing disease.
    “I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us “ f107HyperSabr

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    Re: Iraqi woman, 20, dies; police in Arizona say father ran her over

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    Better yet, we should ban cars. That way, no one gets run over.
    No, we only need to ban Muslims from owning or driving cars. LOL !!
    “I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us “ f107HyperSabr

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    Re: Iraqi woman, 20, dies; police in Arizona say father ran her over

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    One person murders someone = the other 100k are animals

    Awesome logic guys, well done.
    oK I was a wee bit harsh but let us list some of the activities of the 100 million Iraqi’s:

    car b0mbings almost every day

    explosion at Christian Churches

    attack on and killings of Christians and various forms of Religious Genocide

    killing of other Muslim types

    beheadings

    mistreatment of its Kurdish population

    mistreatment of its various minorities

    deportation and Arabization policies

    Sunni vs Siite violence

    We can go on and on. No not all of the 100, 000, 000 are animals but when the majority does not stop the minority how can we just blame the leaders.
    “I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us “ f107HyperSabr

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