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Thread: Iraqi woman, 20, dies; police in Arizona say father ran her over

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    Re: Iraqi woman, 20, dies; police in Arizona say father ran her over

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    OK. If it's not religious, but cultural, then why did you bring up Jehovah's Witnesses and "Christian fundies"?
    That was tongue in cheek. If others are going to insist that certain religions are not welcome in our Western countries, I suggest we start cleaning up our own houses first. If the Muslims who kill their children are not welcome here, then neither should JW or certain extreme Christian sects.
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    Re: Iraqi woman, 20, dies; police in Arizona say father ran her over

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    That was tongue in cheek. If others are going to insist that certain religions are not welcome in our Western countries, I suggest we start cleaning up our own houses first. If the Muslims who kill their children are not welcome here, then neither should JW or certain extreme Christian sects.
    But even then, there's a difference between making a medical choice based on your religion, believing that God will provide, and intentionally killing your children.
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    Re: Iraqi woman, 20, dies; police in Arizona say father ran her over

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    But even then, there's a difference between making a medical choice based on your religion, believing that God will provide, and intentionally killing your children.
    How is it different? In both cases the person believes he/she is doing God/Allah's will. There have been cases, especially in Africa and South America, where Christian parents killed their own children because they thought their kids were possessed by the devil. Insanity in the name of god is not solely a Muslim trait.
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    Re: Iraqi woman, 20, dies; police in Arizona say father ran her over

    Because the people withholding earthly medical treatment aren't actually trying to kill their kids . . . ?
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Iraqi woman, 20, dies; police in Arizona say father ran her over

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Because the people withholding earthly medical treatment aren't actually trying to kill their kids . . . ?
    No, they're trying to "save" them and to "save" themselves. They believe they're being tested by God. They believe that anything other than the hand of god will poison their souls and their child's soul forever. The Muslim who kills his daughter or the Christian who kills his child to cast out the demon believes he's doing god's work. They don't think they're doing anything wrong either.
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    Re: Iraqi woman, 20, dies; police in Arizona say father ran her over

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    This isn't the first time i've heard about this type of thing. And I'm quite sure it won't be the last.
    And today wasn't the first time I've heard about someone in the south bronx shooting someone else in the south bronx. I'm also quite sure it won't be the last. Does that mean that we can just classify all black people as animals and kick them out of the country?
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Iraqi woman, 20, dies; police in Arizona say father ran her over

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    No, they're trying to "save" them and to "save" themselves. They believe they're being tested by God. They believe that anything other than the hand of god will poison their souls and their child's soul forever. The Muslim who kills his daughter or the Christian who kills his child to cast out the demon believes he's doing god's work. They don't think they're doing anything wrong either.
    Now, hold on -- I thought it wasn't religious?

    But it any case, no, it's not the same thing. You give examples of parents taking planned, concrete steps to kill their children. That's the outcome they want.

    Withholding earthly medical attention, no matter how stupid it seems, is not at all the same thing.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Iraqi woman, 20, dies; police in Arizona say father ran her over

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    How is it different? In both cases the person believes he/she is doing God/Allah's will. There have been cases, especially in Africa and South America, where Christian parents killed their own children because they thought their kids were possessed by the devil. Insanity in the name of god is not solely a Muslim trait.


    Arcana, The Christians you speak of I believe were prosecuted and sentenced as well were they not? As in the cases of Latin America, and African children that met these fates were also not in a land or culture that had specific laws in place governing behavior concerning this. We are a land of law, and as such I don't think anyone can make the case that culture over rules law? Moral equivalence will not suffice either. Because just as ignorance in no defense in the eyes of the court, neither is your moral equivalence. In in fact is rather disgusting to suggest.

    If this family wanted a pure life in the eyes of Allah, then there are plenty of Muslim countries that have the luxuries of the western world that they could have chosen to live. But they didn't, they came here, and as such are bound by our law.


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    Re: Iraqi woman, 20, dies; police in Arizona say father ran her over

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    How is it different? In both cases the person believes he/she is doing God/Allah's will. There have been cases, especially in Africa and South America, where Christian parents killed their own children because they thought their kids were possessed by the devil. Insanity in the name of god is not solely a Muslim trait.
    Let's say that 20 years down the road, we've developed a technology that allows us to cure most diseases. You have a child who is sick, so this is of great comfort to you. The only problem is that in order to get the parts for this cure, you have to donate an egg, which is then fertilized and grown until its 8 months and 29 days old. Then, the fetus is torn into pieces and used for parts to help treat your current child.

    Now, I don't know about your views, but I'm sure you can imagine that some people would have a problem with that. If they refused to go through that process, and as a result, their first child died, does that make them murderers?
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Iraqi woman, 20, dies; police in Arizona say father ran her over

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Now, hold on -- I thought it wasn't religious?
    I don't think it is, no. The practice would be much more wide spread in the entire Muslim world if religion was all there was to this issue. And if it is religious in nature, I think we've established that Muslims are not the only ones who harm their children, intentionally or not. If steps are taken to prevent certain "undesirables" from immigrating into the West, ALL religious groups should be targeted as they ALL have dangerous fundamentalists in their midst.

    But it any case, no, it's not the same thing. You give examples of parents taking planned, concrete steps to kill their children. That's the outcome they want.

    Withholding earthly medical attention, no matter how stupid it seems, is not at all the same thing.
    Well, of course it's not the same thing. In one case the parent is waiting for god to act and in the other the parent is acting in the name of god. The similarity lies in the fact that both believe they are doing the right thing.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

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