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21-gun salute for ship built with 9/11 steel

I don't think anyone really sees this as being a "political cause." The government builds warships and names them to honor people and things. This one was built after the WTC. They named it to honor NY. As a nice symbolic gesture, they used some WTC steel. This is the type of thing that people can read about in the paper, smile, and then forget about.

The article said they used 7 1/2 tons of WTC steel in the ship. My main concern would be compromising the functional capabilities of the warship. Granted, I don't think it would be a problem in this case, but we live in a time where the f-22 just happened to have manufacturing interests in 46 different states. I dislike the trend in which weapons are constructed with obligations to non-military requirements. Its fine to honor a warship after the towers, but that should be reflected in symbolic features like the name, not the materials used to build it.
 
Honoring those who fell with a ship of war. Nice.

I think its great symbolism. I cannot think of a better way to be eulogized.

From their deaths, you will have created a machine of war. Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.
 
:roll:

I guess I missed that news. What are you defending us for again?

I can't imagine any ways that hegemonic U.S. political regimes and their jingoistic proponents protect the general welfare of Canadians either, inasmuch as most people tend to punch when someone spits in their face, and Canada's regional proximity to the U.S. will likely place its citizens at increased risk of terrorist assault. That hasn't manifested into anything yet, but hell, what happens when someone tries to biologically contaminate Lake Superior? :shrug:
 
Thank God you live in Canada, where you can rely on those ships to defend you, without having to trouble your conscience about actually paying for them.

I don't mind people disagreeing with me about it. I see it as just more ammo for the military-industrial complex.

The issue I have is with my nationality being used against me by you just because I don't support militarization. Grow up please.
 
I think its great symbolism. I cannot think of a better way to be eulogized.

From their deaths, you will have created a machine of war. Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

Well, this is along the lines of what I was thinking. The terrorists wanted a war, they wanted unrest, they wanted the West to shed its peaceful veneer and get down and dirty. This is just playing right into it. I don't see how building a ship that will be used to attack countries, kill more innocent people, and breed a new generation of terrorists is going to help.

Not to mention, the war in Afghanistan and Iraq will not yield long term results. Afghanistan is a mess right now, and the conflict has expanded well into Pakistan and the surrounding -stans. Sending more resources into the conflict when the strategy has no meaningful direction isn't intelligent.

The ship being made to honor 9-11 and being called USS New York is just glossing over all the above.
 
Given the two useless wars being fought right now, the dollars and lives lost doing it, and the political strife in the aftermath, I find it incredibly ironic and twisted that the steel from the fallen towers was used to make another apparatus of war.

It doesn't honor them. It disgraces them.

First of all only one of the wars is useless - Iraq. The oher war that The Bush abandoned Afghanistan was the one we should have fought since that one was realted to 9-11.

There is nothing wrong with making another a "apparatus of war. " What did you think was needed to fight wars, fast talking ?

Too bad it will take another year to get the New York ready for a good war.
 
It's more of the Twin Towers being an iconic symbol of the USA, not about simply the victims but about the US's lost as a nation.

The ship making shows that even the ashes of the destroyed towers will be there to protect the people.

But that's just a wild guess. :mrgreen:


...'Nuff said...
 
So, honouring the dead of the Twin Towers = okay and acceptable for conservatives.... guess it is because Bush ordered the ship.

But honouring returning dead from war = horrible political photo op...?

Interesting double standard there...

One would think that honouring both would be on the mantra of the US right wing.. guess not.

Hmmmm, let's see. Were the bodies of 9/11 victims used as a photo op to prop up a failing president and take people's eyes off all his **** up? Uh, no!
 
Well, this is along the lines of what I was thinking. The terrorists wanted a war, they wanted unrest, they wanted the West to shed its peaceful veneer and get down and dirty. This is just playing right into it. I don't see how building a ship that will be used to attack countries, kill more innocent people, and breed a new generation of terrorists is going to help.

Not to mention, the war in Afghanistan and Iraq will not yield long term results. Afghanistan is a mess right now, and the conflict has expanded well into Pakistan and the surrounding -stans. Sending more resources into the conflict when the strategy has no meaningful direction isn't intelligent.

You seem so certain about everything, with no more expertise than I have. Your evaluation of the situation is not objective, no matter how much you might like to believe that it is, and your choice of wording to present your own opinion as if it were fact. It is impossible for you to emphatically state that no long term results will be yielded from the wars.

Those instruments of war also kill bad guys. But that is glaringly absent from your "assesment" of the situation.
 
Hmmmm, let's see. Were the bodies of 9/11 victims used as a photo op to prop up a failing president and take people's eyes off all his **** up? Uh, no!

Yet the Bush did use the ashes of the Towers for a photo op a couple days after 9-11. I know that you are completely wrong about smearing President Obama with the scurrilous accusations by falsing claiming that he performed a photo op at Dover. Did you guys forget the ultimate staged photo op by the Bush Shrub? REMEMBER MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!!
 
Given the two useless wars being fought right now, the dollars and lives lost doing it, and the political strife in the aftermath, I find it incredibly ironic and twisted that the steel from the fallen towers was used to make another apparatus of war.

It doesn't honor them. It disgraces them.





So left wing liberal hyper-partisan hackism is your issue with this.... :shrug:




I think a ship for our brave boys and girls serving thier country honorably is a great way to honor the fallen (my friends, and family who died 11 September 2001), Sorry you value service members from the country that makes it so you all can spend your tax money on things like 3rd rate healthcare... :shrug:
 
Yet the Bush did use the ashes of the Towers for a photo op a couple days after 9-11. I know that you are completely wrong about smearing President Obama with the scurrilous accusations by falsing claiming that he performed a photo op at Dover. Did you guys forget the ultimate staged photo op by the Bush Shrub? REMEMBER MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!!

Are you saying that PBO didn't accuse our soldiers of indiscriminately attacking civilians?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S26C-rxIVW8"]YouTube - Barack Obama calls US troops baby killers by claiming they[/ame]
 
So left wing liberal hyper-partisan hackism is your issue with this.... :shrug:




I think a ship for our brave boys and girls serving thier country honorably is a great way to honor the fallen (my friends, and family who died 11 September 2001), Sorry you value service members from the country that makes it so you all can spend your tax money on things like 3rd rate healthcare... :shrug:

Yeah!

Remember The Alamo!

Remember the Maine!

Remember Pearl Harbor!

Remember 9/11!
 
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This is from 2006, but nonetheless, you can see Canada's Navy is our ally, and we are grateful to their fighting men and women, as we our to our fighting men and women.


The Chief of the Maritime Staff's statement to the Standing Committee on National Defence (SCOND), which convened on 22 Nov 06. CMS appeared before this Committee with the Chief of the Air Staff.

VAdm Drew Robertson (Chief of the Maritime Staff, Department of National Defence):

Mr. Chairman, committee members, thanks for providing the two of us with the opportunity to speak to you today.

I intend to focus my comments in three areas.

First I will talk about what our Navy is doing to support the Canadian Forces’ operations in Afghanistan; second about what your Navy is doing to meet Canada’s obligations regarding maritime defence and security; and third about the state of readiness of Canada’s maritime forces.

Let me begin with Afghanistan. Our men and women in Afghanistan certainly fill me with pride and humility on a daily basis. I have pride in their skills regardless of their occupation, certainly pride in the effectiveness of our army in a highly complex and continually evolving situation with a tenacious adversary, and humility in the face of selfless acts of courage, and also in their determination to see the mission through.

Mr. Chair, our experience in Afghanistan shows how complex modern operations have become and have forced us to adopt new ways of thinking so that we can get the most out of our Canadian Forces’ capabilities.

I can assure you that your navy has responded where it could, and it will continue to do so. Thus, we've seen naval officers, both regular and reserve, contribute to the strategic advisory team that General Lucas just spoke of. We seconded staff to the U.S.-led Combined Forces Command-Afghanistan to assist in the transition between American forces and NATO forces that occurred earlier this year. We've deployed a wide variety of personnel--military policemen, doctors, cargo movement specialists, drivers, supply techs, and so on--into the country, and we've sent others to Wainwright to contribute to the training that's ongoing there. We've dispatched our specially skilled naval clearance divers to the critical and highly dangerous function of defeating improvised explosive devices in theatre because they have, as I said, special skills.

Mr. Chairman, our people in Afghanistan deserve that we consider novel technical means of providing for their protection. Accordingly, for some time, naval technical and operational experts have been assisting the Chief of the Land Staff to determine the feasibility of deploying what's called the Phalanx close-in weapons system, or CIWS, you would have heard about. It's a devastatingly accurate Gatling gun, and it's our destroyers' and our frigates' essential last defence against anti-ship missiles, which the CIWS destroys in the very last seconds before impact. The question is whether we can turn a few of them to the purpose of defending selected installations in theatre from inbound mortar or rocket fire. While it remains to be determined whether or not CIWS can be usefully employed in such a role, it signals the naval and land staffs' collective resolve to meet such challenges in Afghanistan together.

Of course, Mr. Chairman, the campaign against terrorism is also waged more broadly, and our navy is playing a role in those efforts, as it has since October 2001 when Canada dispatched a naval task group and maritime aircraft to the Arabian Sea, where we defended the U.S. Navy and U.S. Marine Corps force that seized Kandahar from the Taliban.

Beyond the campaign against terrorism, the country is dealing with other problems of defence and security, but I know that your committee is quite aware of this, especially in the context of recent events, such as those in Lebanon and Iran, not to mention the Korean Peninsula.

As sailors, we understand that the free use of the seas, on which our economic prosperity depends, is also honourable. Many would like to take advantage of it to cause us great harm.

Accordingly, our first priority is to defend the nation. That's why, as part of the CF's ongoing transformation, the navy has led in standing up a Joint Task Force Atlantic and Pacific to support Canada Command, and they're making sure that the right maritime forces can be positioned in the right place at the right time to uphold our sovereignty.

Mr. Chairman, our domestic security begins off other countries' shores. As but one example, let me cite the work of HMCS Fredericton, deployed for nearly two months, back in the spring, as far as the west coast of Africa. She was deployed in a covert counter-drug operation to break up a drug ring that operates in the east end of Montreal. The successful conclusion of the operation led to the interception of 23 tonnes of cargo worth close to $0.25 billion. This, as I said, occurred in the Gulf of Guinea, a long way from our waters.

This wouldn't have been attempted by the RCMP without the assurance provided by Fredericton's ability to operate unseen, as well as her ability to apply overwhelming force at a moment's notice, had that been needed by the RCMP to back up them up. Although these actions occurred at a great distance from our shores, the actions that were taken contributed to the security of Canadians directly, while also interdicting a drug-smuggling chain that likely began in the poppy fields of Afghanistan.

Mr. Chairman, the fact that domestic international maritime security can be provided at great distance from Canada is also why HMCS Ottawa is deployed to the Arabian Sea as part of a coalition force. Ottawa is the 20th ship to be deployed to the region since 9/11, initially under Operation Apollo; we've now changed the name to Operation Altair. She's there to underscore Canada's enduring interests in the region; to interdict those who would use the seas for unlawful purposes, including terrorists; to further Canada's objectives in preventing the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction; to reassure regional friends and security partners; to deter those who would act against our interests; and to prepare for eventual follow-on operations, should deterrence fail.

The importance of maritime security operations in distant waters is why HMCS Iroquois is serving in the Mediterranean tonight as flagship of NATO's premier rapid response maritime group, currently engaged in counterterrorism and counter-proliferation operations under the alliance's Operation Active Endeavour. For the last nine months that group has been commanded by a Canadian, Commodore Denis Rouleau, a testament to the fact that Canada is recognized by navies large and small for its capacity to exercise international leadership at sea.

That's also why our west coast task group has just completed working with an American battle group as the latter prepares for major operational deployment in the coming months. That's why, off North Carolina over the weekend, the CF completed a tactical trial to examine a concept of operations for a possible future Canadian sea-based expeditionary capability. It's why that experiment also involved a Canadian and an American naval task group under Canadian leadership, whose ships worked to keep to keep the force safe from the types of threats Canada expects to encounter in the future's contestable littoral waters around the world, an environment which the recent successful missile attack by Hezbollah against the Israeli frigate back in July served to illustrate with dramatic and deadly effect.

In total last week, we had over 2,600 sailors at sea in the Pacific, the Atlantic, the Mediterranean, and the Arabian Sea. I think that's a measure of our ability to make an ongoing contribution to international maritime security and provide credible options for potential contingencies worldwide, including as an integral part of joint CF operations in the littoral, if needed.

Let me turn very briefly to readiness. That we've accomplished so much over the last few years is a tribute to our successors in husbanding and marshalling resources through a tiered readiness approach; however, I think we're probably reaching the limit of what's achievable. Some of that work may be undone if we cannot address readiness challenges that face all of us today, and, in the case of the navy, they will be aggravated during fleet modernization and renewal.

The government's support for the joint support ship program marks a significant and highly important turning point towards a recapitalized fleet for Canada. That project is expected to enter a new phase shortly; two teams will complete funded proposals to design and build the ships, and this, I have to say, is great news for the navy. The challenge that I and my successors want to face will be to improve the readiness of the balance of the fleet so as to maximize return on investment, as represented by our ships and our skilled crews.

In the face of the challenge of keeping the Canadian Forces versatile and fit for combat, we appreciate the support of this committee and of all parliamentarians.

In closing, Mr. Chairman, permit me to reassure the committee that your navy has been making a contribution in Afghanistan and stands ready to provide additional support within its means while continuing to provide for the maritime security of our nation, both at home and working with our allies abroad.

Let me thank you again for the opportunity to appear before the committee. Both of us would be pleased to take your questions.
Canadian Navy: Strategic Issues


Canadian forces are fighting and dying as our ally. I don't see the appropriateness of disparaging a strong ally.
 
I will not even bothering listening to that because I know that he did not say

" indiscriminately attacking civilians"... If you had a legitimate source instead of FAUX NETWORK we could listen but you don't.

:rofl...That's friggin' hillarious. You're the King of De'Nile, dude.
 
:rofl...That's friggin' hillarious. You're the King of De'Nile, dude.

I deal with facts. Show me a transscript from a legitimate news sorce that quotes Obama calling American armed forces members "baby killer" or "indiscriminately attacking civilians". Civilians has ben killed by accident and I do recall him mentioning that once but show me where / when he called them baby killers!!!

oh I forgot, Dude !!!
 
I deal with facts. Show me a transscript from a legitimate news sorce that quotes Obama calling American armed forces members "baby killer" or "indiscriminately attacking civilians". Civilians has ben killed by accident and I do recall him mentioning that once but show me where / when he called them baby killers!!!

oh I forgot, Dude !!!

I gave you an actual video and you refuse to listen to it. Whatelse can I do to help you???
 
This is from 2006, but nonetheless, you can see Canada's Navy is our ally, and we are grateful to their fighting men and women, as we our to our fighting men and women.

Canadian forces are fighting and dying as our ally. I don't see the appropriateness of disparaging a strong ally.

I find it disheartening when people make fun of Canada's level of arms yet gloss over the fact that until recently Canadians were the ones holding the Southern campaign in Afghanistan. You know, if I said anything that bad about the U.S., I would have people piling on me... yet it's okay to diss an ally in such a dishonorable way.

Catz, you make me ill. Go back to the basement.
 
First off some off you need to understand what the USS New York is it's the fifth San Antonio-class amphibious transport dock, is the sixth ship of the United States Navy to be named after the state of New York.

Which mean it's far from being an actual warship yes it can move Troops around but LPDs are mainly used for Humanitarian Duties.

So see my Canadian Friend and even you PeterEU have no understanding what the function of this and the rest of this class. Oh and the next two come on line will be named the USS Arlington and USS Somerset.

As for you photo Catz of the F-14A which is a US Naval Aircraft the real story behind the photo is that airframe was being moved to The Pacific War Museum located at NAS Ford Island Pearl harbor. Ford Island runway wasn't long enough for a F-14 to land on so they flew it to Hickham and loaded it onto a barge and moved it over to the island.

So the next time some of you want to post crap about what the US Military has I suggest you do your homework before or you will get your arse call on it.
 
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First off some off you need to understand what the USS New York is it's the fifth San Antonio-class amphibious transport dock, is the sixth ship of the United States Navy to be named after the state of New York.

Which mean it's far from being an actual warship yes it can move Troops around but LPDs are mainly used for Humanitarian Duties.

So see my Canadian Friend and even you PeterEU have no understanding what the function of this and the rest of this class. Oh and the next two come on line will be named the USS Arlington and USS Somerset.

As for you photo Catz of the F-14A which is a US Naval Aircraft the real story behind the photo is that airframe was being moved to The Pacific War Museum located at NAS Ford Island Pearl harbor. Ford Island runway wasn't long enough for a F-14 to land on so they flew it to Hickham and loaded it onto a barge and moved it over to the island.

So the next time some of you want to post crap about what the US Military has I suggest you do your homework before or you will get your arse call on it.

If it can move troops around for the sake of warfare, then it's a war ship.
 
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