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Thread: Obama administration: Toss wiretap lawsuit

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    Re: Obama administration: Toss wiretap lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by aps View Post
    That's a valid complaint.
    Do you know that Bush privately warned both Obama and Clinton during the campaign not to say things that would cause them to backpedal once in office. They didn't heed his advice. Campaign rhetoric is a dangerous thing. Obama is finding out that Bush was not as stupid as he thought.
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    Re: Obama administration: Toss wiretap lawsuit

    The warrantless wiretap program gets hackles raised where hackles shouldn't. Too many people hear "Warrantless" and freak out. Like those morons that protest "Irradiated foods" as being dangerous. Nuclear Lunch: The Dangers and Unknowns of Food Irradiation / MICHAEL COLBY / Fatal Harvest: The Tragedy of Industrial Agriculture / Island Press Jul02

    YES, if the program was unrestricted, with no oversight, and was being used improperly I'd have to agree it should be shut down. To call for Impeaching a President because he supports a program designed to allow the intel arms of the Government to listen into calls from Terrorist overseas to Americans or vice versa is just the far fringe of hyper-reactive paranoia.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Obama administration: Toss wiretap lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by aps View Post
    I don't see this as a broken promise by Obama. At the time he made allegations, he was not privy to the intelligence that the then White House had. Now that he has a more complete picture as to what this lawsuit would divulge, he has changed his position. I don't have a problem with a changed position when the person is provided more detailed intelligence.
    You are correct, it's not a broken promise from Obama. However, you are also incorrect, he didn't change his position upon more detailed intelligence, sorry.

    Unbelieveable!
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: Obama administration: Toss wiretap lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Do you know that Bush privately warned both Obama and Clinton during the campaign not to say things that would cause them to backpedal once in office. They didn't heed his advice. Campaign rhetoric is a dangerous thing. Obama is finding out that Bush was not as stupid as he thought.
    American......I am confused here and especially by aps' post. This was no change in mind, Obama would merely pander to his audience. During the Democratic Campaign, Obama voted right along with Bush for wiretapping, Hillary tried to use it against him. His constituencise simply didn't care that Obama followed Bush on this policy and the story gets even scarier although not appropriate for this thread. This issue he voted yea on as the Left deafened us with their silence proving beyond any doubt they weren't concerned for this issue ion the first place. It was just another Bush bashing effort, now that Bush is gone, the pretend and fake outrage over warrantless wiretapping, in fact, the fake and pretend outrage for the entire Patriot Act has vanished.
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: Obama administration: Toss wiretap lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    You are correct, it's not a broken promise from Obama. However, you are also incorrect, he didn't change his position upon more detailed intelligence, sorry.

    Unbelieveable!
    Hello? You're going to make that assertion and then not back it up? Talk about unbelievable!

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    Re: Obama administration: Toss wiretap lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by aps View Post
    Hello? You're going to make that assertion and then not back it up? Talk about unbelievable!
    It's not an assertion, it's fact.

    Obama (D-IL), Yea

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    BTW, if you had done your homework here, you'd quickly ascertain for yourself that he didn't change his mind. Number one, Hillary voted Nay and brought this fact up during the Democratic Primary....she was ignored.

    Two, Obama's problem with the wiretapping wasn't the legality....it was the immunity given companies who had allowed the fed gov to access records. You'll note today, THAT is the issue he changed his mind on. He wanted to prosecute telcoms for giving the Bush Admin access to records....he had NO problem with wiretaps whatsoever, there was NO change in minds here.
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: Obama administration: Toss wiretap lawsuit

    And here of course is Obama extending the Patriot Act, in detail, extending HIS right to access company records that he so vociferously opposed during Bush's tenure.

    Obama Supports Extending Patriot Act Provisions

    WASHINGTON — The Obama administration supports extending three key provisions of the Patriot Act that are due to expire at the end of the year, the Justice Department told Congress in a letter made public Tuesday.

    Lawmakers and civil rights groups had been pressing the Democratic administration to say whether it wants to preserve the post-Sept. 11 law's authority to access business records, as well as monitor so-called "lone wolf" terrorists and conduct roving wiretaps.
    And does anyone want to guess what his coming into office and being able to bring lawsuits against telcoms would mean.......oh...that's right....under trillions in lawsuits, the telcoms would be forced to...declare bankruptcies and the government...like banks and insurance cos and auto manufacturers...would be government owned...not THATS an intrusion into all of our lives but.....his vote went unnoticed by those sheeple who voted for Obama.
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: Obama administration: Toss wiretap lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by aps View Post
    I don't see this as a broken promise by Obama. At the time he made allegations, he was not privy to the intelligence that the then White House had. Now that he has a more complete picture as to what this lawsuit would divulge, he has changed his position. I don't have a problem with a changed position when the person is provided more detailed intelligence.
    He should have been smart enough to know that he didn't know as much as Bush did about the situation and didn't have access to all the intelligence, so he should have kept his pie hole shut on the subject.

    His poor judgement wasn't in contueing the program, but in raving on and on about discontinueing it, knowing damn well that he didn't know, nor understand the whole story.

    I wasn't here during the election, obviously, but I said then that he would never keep this and several other promises, because when he got to the Oval Office, he was going to be met by serveral military personel. The guys that have permenant jobs at the WH ans don't worry about getting fired. They don't have to worry about getting fired, so they are able to give the president no-bull **** answers to his question, even if it's not what he wants to hear. The first day, he met with them, they showed him The Binder, the one that only the prez gets to see and said, "All those promises you made about ending electronic surveilance of foreign phone calls? Yeah, get ready to go ahead and break those".
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama administration: Toss wiretap lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    What alternative dimension do you come from? I mean seriously, the US government regardless of party colour has spied on its own citizens since forever. In the 1940s it was against "nazies and japs", in the 1950s to this century it was "commies, lefties and others undesirables" and now days it is anyone with even a remote link to the Islamic world. And that is not even including those Presidents and heads of the intelligence communities that used their positions to spy on rivals..

    And like it or not, it is not "government" that is doing this, it is so called well meaning elected officials that often demand it and in some rare cases it is elected officials that are not well meaning but hell bent on gaining more power. Government is only the tool. And dont think the private sector is any better.

    Back then, warrantless wiretaps were used to cripple the 20 million strong KKK. Warrantless wiretaps were also used to expose Communist operatives at the highest levels of government and cripple their network that had existed since before WW2.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama administration: Toss wiretap lawsuit

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    When Bush was spying on Americans, I called for his impeachment. Now that it turns out that Obama is doing the same, I call for his impeachment. Spying on Americans is not something that America does. It is something that the old Soviet Union did. It is not a good thing to know that our last 2 presidents support Soviet policies, and taking actions that suppress freedom, rather than enhance it.

    Obama should resign his presidency over this, and if the American people have any cahonas at all, they should unelect each and every Democrat and Republican that supported Bush in this, and who are supporting Obama now, either directly, or by their unamerican inaction.

    This is disgusting. Citizens should not be afraid of their government. The government should be afraid of its citizens.
    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I call bull****, it was never proven that he was spying on Americans.
    The TSP is the program most people are referring to when they talk about "warrantless wiretapping." In this program, if the government had reason to believe that an individual was related to a foreign terrorist group, then they had the option to listen to that persons communications when they reasonably believed that the intended recipient was outside the United States. The program was nowhere near as broad as most people think it was.

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    It was proven that the NSA has gathered and stored every email written by every American. Is that spying?
    Link?
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