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Thread: Iran Rejects Deal to Ship Out Uranium, Officials Report

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    Re: Iran rejects diplomacy: its time for war

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    No. The draft can only be used for the military.
    Where do you see that in the Constitution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang
    This was already provided this a few posts back. Post #68.
    And I already replied to it in the very next post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang
    The thread has evolved to this point partially because of you. No harm in debating a topic that leads to another in the same thread. At least I see nothing wrong with it so long as at least a few pages have been done already.
    Getting back on subject...

    Those of you who are beating the war drums with Iran - while ALSO bitching about not sending enough troops to Afghanistan, and ALSO bitching that we're drawing down our troops in Iraq - Where do you propose all these extra troops come from? And don't say the draft unless that is seriously what you support (as opposed to stupidass partisan "ZOMG TEH LIBRUHLS WANT A DRAFT LULZ").

    I think most of you guys simply do not understand the concept of finite military power. The United States is not omnipotent.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 11-01-09 at 10:04 PM.
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  2. #82
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    Re: Iran rejects diplomacy: its time for war

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    That's some odd reasoning. Does the government have the power to draft you to serve in the US Postal Service or the IRS by the same logic?
    Has the postal service ever been undermanned during a period of national crisis?



    Yep, you did. Now with Rangel and this Hollings guy, I'm aware of two congressmen who supported it. Which leads me back to the original question: Does a draft have widespread support amongst congressional Democrats? And does it have Barack Obama's support, as was implied in the original statement to which I replied?
    You said that no one ever supported a draft during Bush's two terms. It's irrelevant if it was supported by two Congress critters, or two hundred.



    If no one here is seriously suggesting a return to the draft, then this has nothing to do with the subject of this thread and is just idiotic partisan hackery.
    You're the one that got this cranked up. You can go ahead and concede that you're wrong and we can move on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Iran rejects diplomacy: its time for war

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Those of you who are beating the war drums with Iran - while ALSO bitching about not sending enough troops to Afghanistan, and ALSO bitching that we're drawing down our troops in Iraq - Where do you propose all these extra troops come from? And don't say the draft unless that is seriously what you support (as opposed to stupidass partisan "ZOMG TEH LIBRUHLS WANT A DRAFT LULZ").

    I think most of you guys simply do not understand the concept of finite military power. The United States is not omnipotent.
    How about responding to my post that addresses your question? (post #75)

    Again, you either mis-read my post, or ignore it. I guess like most "libruhls" facts are of no interest to you.

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    Re: Iran rejects diplomacy: its time for war

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Where do you see that in the Constitution?
    Article 1, Section 8, Clause 12 is not about the IRS or Postal Service. It is about the military.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    And I already replied to it in the very next post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    He was talking about shared sacrifice, not everyone literally going to war. Do you actually believe he was talking about sending every person in America into a war zone?
    US Presidential candidate Barack Hussein Obama said on September 13th that his job as president would include demanding that the American people recognize an “obligation” for military service. “If we are going into war, then all of us go, not just some,” Obama declared at an evening forum on national service at Columbia University in New York City.
    If he thinks this do you really think that he wouldn't call a draft? It is obvious to me from this statement that he would have no problem with it. At least Bush said that he would never institute a draft.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Now then, are you actually advocating re-instituting the draft? Or are you just trolling like the partisan hack you are?
    Just because I do not (and would never) advocate re-instuting the draft does not mean that I can't show you were you are wrong in stating that the Draft is illegal and other areas where you are wrong. Indeed I was just showing the facts and really had nothing to do with either party. So if stating facts is "trolling" and being a "partisan hack" then I am guilty. Sorry you don't like little things like facts being thrown at ya.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Getting back on subject...

    Those of you who are beating the war drums with Iran - while ALSO bitching about not sending enough troops to Afghanistan, and ALSO bitching that we're drawing down our troops in Iraq - Where do you propose all these extra troops come from? And don't say the draft unless that is seriously what you support (as opposed to stupidass partisan "ZOMG TEH LIBRUHLS WANT A DRAFT LULZ").

    I think most of you guys simply do not understand the concept of finite military power. The United States is not omnipotent.
    You forget or do not realize that I would have no problem throwing a few nukes towards them. (I've stated it before in other threads) You do not need nothing but the nukes so would take very little resources on our part to get rid of Iran. Not one of our troops would have to die in Iran. Not a single bullet, suv, food or any other type of supply would have to be wasted in Iran.

    While the US may not be omnipotent we are definately a hell of a lot stronger than Iran.
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    Re: Iran rejects diplomacy: its time for war

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Has the postal service ever been undermanned during a period of national crisis?
    What does that have to do with whether or not it's constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst
    You said that no one ever supported a draft during Bush's two terms. It's irrelevant if it was supported by two Congress critters, or two hundred.
    I said I've never heard of any congressmen supporting it.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst
    You're the one that got this cranked up. You can go ahead and concede that you're wrong and we can move on.
    Like I said, I've now heard of two congressmen who have supported this. I'm still waiting to hear: A) If this is the consensus among congressional Democrats, B) If Barack Obama supports this, and C) If you are seriously suggesting a draft as a way to improve our military, or just trolling.
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    Re: Iran rejects diplomacy: its time for war

    Quote Originally Posted by rogerredy View Post
    Since iran is de-stabilizing israel, iraq, lebanon, and is known to have terrorist cells inside qatar and other gulf states, is completely rejectionist with respect to an israeli-arab peace process, uses terrorism as a political method and murder as an internal one, and is working on illegal nuclear weapons, then yes, it is safe to say that removing that fascist dictatorship would solve many middle east problems literally overnight.
    Except that you completely ignore the actual problems of the Middle.

    Let's address your first post. Iran cannot destabilize Israel more than Israeli politicians are doing without nuclear weapons. And while Iran is acting upon its interests in the other countries, your definition would classify a large number of countries around the world as destabilizing other countries. Every country in history has used terrorism as a political method, not to mention murder.

    You ignore the real problems of the Middle East. Getting rid of Iran's government does not fix the Dutch Disease problem which is arguably at the root of the problems of the Modern Middle east. Removing Iran's government does not fix the millennia long cultural problems within the region and within Islam. Removing Iran's government does not fix Pakistan (which arguably is the real problem despite being on the fringe of the ME). Removing Iran's government does not remove the corrupt regimes that are explicitly delaying progress in the Middle East. In many ways, Iran government is more progressive then many other Middle Eastern regimes. The problems of the Middle East transcend Iran by hundreds, if not thousands of years.

    As for the other poster's question as to where the troops would come from, i would pull the 40,000 troops stationed in s korea, 60,000 in japan, and 65,000 in germany, and send them into iran. That would be plenty, along with the fact that both the air force and navy are mostly inactive WRT to both the iraq and afghan missions.
    1) How would we pay for this
    2) How would we maintain this force
    3) How would we maintain rotations for this force

    165,000 troops was not enough to secure Iraq, which was smaller, easier terrain and far less populated. 400,000 was. Iran's population is far, far, far more then Iraq's with terrain resembling Afghanistan's far more then Iraq's.

    Ever hear of a guy named Eric Shinseki? Because you sound like Rummy right now.
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    Re: Iran rejects diplomacy: its time for war

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Article 1, Section 8, Clause 12 is not about the IRS or Postal Service. It is about the military.
    Take a look at clauses 1 and 7 of the same article and section.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang
    If he thinks this do you really think that he wouldn't call a draft? It is obvious to me from this statement that he would have no problem with it. At least Bush said that he would never institute a draft.
    Yes. There isn't a shadow of doubt in my mind that Obama isn't going to implement the draft. For that matter, there isn't a shadow of doubt about it in YOUR mind either. You know perfectly well it isn't going to happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang
    Just because I do not (and would never) advocate re-instuting the draft does not mean that I can't show you were you are wrong in stating that the Draft is illegal and other areas where you are wrong.
    Then let's get back to the subject at hand before j-mac derailed it with this nonsense about the draft:

    For those of you bitching about A) not going to war with Iran, B) not building up our troops in Afghanistan quickly enough, C) withdrawing from Iraq: Where are all these extra troops going to come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang
    Indeed I was just showing the facts and really had nothing to do with either party. So if stating facts is "trolling" and being a "partisan hack" then I am guilty. Sorry you don't like little things like facts being thrown at ya.
    The "partisan hack" comment was addressed to j-mac, who IS a partisan hack by any definition of the word.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang
    You forget or do not realize that I would have no problem throwing a few nukes towards them. (I've stated it before in other threads) You do not need nothing but the nukes so would take very little resources on our part to get rid of Iran. Not one of our troops would have to die in Iran. Not a single bullet, suv, food or any other type of supply would have to be wasted in Iran.
    You can either propose a realistic solution or you can use your fantasies of nuclear war as a substitute for actually thinking about the issue. Your choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang
    While the US may not be omnipotent we are definately a hell of a lot stronger than Iran.
    That doesn't mean we have an infinite amount of military power to confront Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan all at the same time. Hell, someone on this thread even suggested starting a war with Libya too.
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    Re: Iran Rejects Deal to Ship Out Uranium, Officials Report

    last thing before bed....Look Kandahar, There was never wide consensus on a draft, Rangel knew that, but cynically introduced it anyway every few months during the Bush terms to bring heat for the number of deployments. it was a strategy by the demos to keep throwing everything at him, while trying to make him look inept. So my last question to you tonight, is, If it was good enough to dog Bush with for a couple of years in demos case, then why is it now out of bounds to raise when you ask where we would get the troops to support Dear Leader, Chairman Maobama's war of necessity in Afghanistan?

    Partisan hackery? I check Tuesday when I get back off the road.....Cheers.


    j-mac
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    Re: Iran rejects diplomacy: its time for war

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    What does that have to do with whether or not it's constitutional?
    If there was a large enough crisis that demanded that the post office not be undermanned, it would constitutional to draft people to work there. But, no one's going to die, if the male doesn't get delivered on time.



    I said I've never heard of any congressmen supporting it.
    Now, you know that there are a few.



    Like I said, I've now heard of two congressmen who have supported this. I'm still waiting to hear: A) If this is the consensus among congressional Democrats, B) If Barack Obama supports this, and C) If you are seriously suggesting a draft as a way to improve our military, or just trolling.
    Rangle's bill was voted down by vote of 402 to 2, so there's at least three that support bringing back the draft. If I remember right, it was Dennis Kesinich that supported Rangle's bill, but I could be wrong and I'm not reseraching it, right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Iran rejects diplomacy: its time for war

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Except that you completely ignore the actual problems of the Middle.

    Let's address your first post. Iran cannot destabilize Israel more than Israeli politicians are doing without nuclear weapons. And while Iran is acting upon its interests in the other countries, your definition would classify a large number of countries around the world as destabilizing other countries. Every country in history has used terrorism as a political method, not to mention murder.

    You ignore the real problems of the Middle East. Getting rid of Iran's government does not fix the Dutch Disease problem which is arguably at the root of the problems of the Modern Middle east. Removing Iran's government does not fix the millennia long cultural problems within the region and within Islam. Removing Iran's government does not fix Pakistan (which arguably is the real problem despite being on the fringe of the ME). Removing Iran's government does not remove the corrupt regimes that are explicitly delaying progress in the Middle East. In many ways, Iran government is more progressive then many other Middle Eastern regimes. The problems of the Middle East transcend Iran by hundreds, if not thousands of years.



    1) How would we pay for this
    2) How would we maintain this force
    3) How would we maintain rotations for this force

    165,000 troops was not enough to secure Iraq, which was smaller, easier terrain and far less populated. 400,000 was.
    Iran's population is far, far, far more then Iraq's with terrain resembling Afghanistan's far more then Iraq's.

    Ever hear of a guy named Eric Shinseki? Because you sound like Rummy right now.
    When did we ever have 400,000 troops in Iraq, at one time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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