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The recession may be over at last — so what now? [edited]

Albert Di Salvo said:
I'm new here. Your post raises an issue for me. Is it ok to be personally rude on DP? What do they say about "he who lives by the sword...?"
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You will see a few people, from both sides of the spectrum, that do not come here to debate.
 
Albert Di Salvo said:
I'm new here. Your post raises an issue for me. Is it ok to be personally rude on DP? What do they say about "he who lives by the sword...?"
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It depends on who you are.
 
I would not take a quarter of growth that included cash for clunkers and mortgage handouts a sign that this recession has ended.
 
Charles Martel said:
I would not take a quarter of growth that included cash for clunkers and mortgage handouts a sign that this recession has ended.
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Watch, as the faux growth you just described becomes the excuse to continue the related spending...
 
Goldenboy219 said:
Careful when dislodging your foot from your mouth. It is the Treasury, not the Fed, that issues debt based on the deficit spending of the US government. The Fed uses the purchasing and selling of these specific assets to inject/retract the amount of money within the economy.

At this point in time, the Fed holds hundreds of billions of dollars in high rated US dollar denominated securities, of which, US Treasuries make up largest piece.
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Again; what is your point?
 
Goobieman said:
Watch, as the faux growth you just described becomes the excuse to continue the related spending...
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Energy bubble, housing bubble, internet bubble which one created a new industry employing more to this day
 
You can have a jobless recovery as companies cut unnecessary jobs and improve process efficiency. Reduce costs, improve efficiency, the stock markets look better, GDP can increase.

Can full employment be sustained? Go back a couple hundred years and people had to work and had to work hard to survive. But we're becoming more efficient all the time. The number of farmers necessary to feed the country lessens as efficiency increases. The number of auto workers to build a car, etc... Some of those that are eliminated will find jobs providing what used to be considered luxury services. But I'm not sure how far that can go. I can envision nearly entirely automated processes in the future eliminating most of the need for labor.

That's not a bad thing, not really. Gives people more free time to do what they want to. The problem is the transition. As jobs are eliminated by more efficient processes and automation how do you handle unemployment? Those with jobs will enjoy lowering prices and an increase in standard of living. Those without jobs ... well, won't have jobs. Personally, I like the idea of reduced weekly hours. Instead of working 40 hours work 30 hours.
 
Goobieman said:
Watch, as the faux growth you just described becomes the excuse to continue the related spending...
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Until demand begins to show overall signs of improvement, governmental demand boosting will continue.

The question i pose to anyone: Are massive deficits when a country is not in a recession good for the economy?
 
winston53660 said:
Energy bubble, housing bubble, internet bubble which one created a new industry employing more to this day
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Since I am not sure that I understand your question, I'll let you tell me, and then tell me how it is relevant to what I said.
 
Goldenboy219 said:
Quit the fear mongering! Also, quit making **** up all the time....
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In other words, you have no point and just want to go on uninformed rants.

There is nothing "fear mongering" in my arguments. What part of $12 trillion National debt, $1.4 trillion and climbing deficits and 10% unemployment is NOT factual?

What part of increasing mortgage foreclosures, increasing Commercial foreclosures and bank closures is not factual?

Your notions about what constitutes "fear mongering" are about as nonsensical as your notions about politics and the economy.

Carry on. :doh
 
Goobieman said:
Watch, as the faux growth you just described becomes the excuse to continue the related spending...
Click to expand...

The Wall Street Journal today runs an op about the $8,000 mortgage handouts and the fact that there is widespread corruption, many not qualifying for the handouts they're getting. Go figure. And we all know cash for clunkers was a temporary shot in the arm, nothing has been done to strengthen the American Auto industry, Obama has done nothing for Amrican business save for demean it and take it over in many cases.

This 3Q number shouldn't be translated into 'growth' much less be an ingredient to ascertain whether the recession has ended.
 
vvx said:
You can have a jobless recovery as companies cut unnecessary jobs and improve process efficiency. Reduce costs, improve efficiency, the stock markets look better, GDP can increase.

Can full employment be sustained? Go back a couple hundred years and people had to work and had to work hard to survive. But we're becoming more efficient all the time. The number of farmers necessary to feed the country lessens as efficiency increases. The number of auto workers to build a car, etc... Some of those that are eliminated will find jobs providing what used to be considered luxury services. But I'm not sure how far that can go. I can envision nearly entirely automated processes in the future eliminating most of the need for labor.

That's not a bad thing, not really. Gives people more free time to do what they want to. The problem is the transition. As jobs are eliminated by more efficient processes and automation how do you handle unemployment? Those with jobs will enjoy lowering prices and an increase in standard of living. Those without jobs ... well, won't have jobs. Personally, I like the idea of reduced weekly hours. Instead of working 40 hours work 30 hours.
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What a stunning argument: the reason we are losing hundreds of thousands of jobs per month is because we are becoming more efficient.

:rofl
 
Goldenboy219 said:
Until demand begins to show overall signs of improvement, governmental demand boosting will continue.

The question i pose to anyone: Are massive deficits when a country is not in a recession good for the economy?
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The answer to that is simple; absolutely not. What is your point again?

Where did you study economics? :doh
 
Charles Martel said:
The Wall Street Journal today runs an op about the $8,000 mortgage handouts and the fact that there is widespread corruption, many not qualifying for the handouts they're getting. Go figure.
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My brother took that deduction. He's keeping the money on hand, waiting for the post-facto 'requirements' to pop up, like we saw with the financial industry bailouts. As soon as they do, the money goes back.

And we all know cash for clunkers was a temporary shot in the arm, nothing has been done to strengthen the American Auto industry
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This is exactly right -- its nothig more than new car sales subsidies; as soon as they stop, the auto industry goes back to what it was.
 
Truth Detector said:
In other words, you have no point and just want to go on uninformed rants.
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You have displayed your ignorance in regards to the subject time and again. Not only that, you refuse to acknowledge it.

There is nothing "fear mongering" in my arguments. What part of $12 trillion National debt, $1.4 trillion and climbing deficits and 10% unemployment is NOT factual?
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That has nothing to do with it. You stated that the Fed doles out treasuries, refused to admit your mistake in regards to debt composition, and resort to backpedaling when you get caught. Quit saying stupid ****, and i will not have to constantly correct you....:2wave:

What part of increasing mortgage foreclosures, increasing Commercial foreclosures and bank closures is not factual?
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Never said they were "not factual"....

Your notions about what constitutes "fear mongering" are about as nonsensical as your notions about politics and the economy.

Carry on. :doh
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So tell us again, where is the majority of interest being paid? Are you aware of the composition of foreign held debt? Strictly speaking, are you aware that the majority of it is short term? Short term debt yields are not the same as long term;)
 
Truth Detector said:
The answer to that is simple; absolutely not. What is your point again?

Where did you study economics? :doh
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So why did Bush continue to do so? He could/should have raised taxes to pay for the war(s)....
 
winston53660 said:
Ahhemm the fed reserve just completed a 300 billion buy today of treasury notes. Ill link later.
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Here ya go Truth Detector:


Oct. 29 (Bloomberg) -- The Federal Reserve completed its $300 billion Treasury purchase program today amid signs the seven-month buying spree helped stabilize the housing market and limited increases in borrowing costs.

Yields on the benchmark 10-year note, which help determine rates on everything from mortgages to corporate bonds, never rose above 4 percent after the central bank began acquiring the debt. They are less than half a percentage point higher than the day before the program was announced on March 18, even though the U.S. sold a record $1.25 trillion in notes and bonds, more than double the amount in the year-earlier period.

Fed Ends Treasury Buys That Capped Rates, Stabilized Housing - Bloomberg.com
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Goldenboy219 said:
You have displayed your ignorance in regards to the subject time and again. Not only that, you refuse to acknowledge it.

That has nothing to do with it. You stated that the Fed doles out treasuries, refused to admit your mistake in regards to debt composition, and resort to backpedaling when you get caught. Quit saying stupid ****, and i will not have to constantly correct you....:2wave:

Never said they were "not factual"....

So tell us again, where is the majority of interest being paid? Are you aware of the composition of foreign held debt? Strictly speaking, are you aware that the majority of it is short term? Short term debt yields are not the same as long term;)
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What is your point? That the Government spending $12 trillion they don’t have is a good thing? Who do you think has to pay for the interest and principle of all this debt and deficit spending? How is that a GOOD thing? What is your point?

Other than your constant whiney tirades, you haven't stated anything of relevance or even remotely related to the thread topic.

I'll ask you again, where did you earn your economics/finance degree and go to College?
 
winston53660 said:
Here ya go Truth Detector:
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What is your point? Where do you think the "FED" gets the money to buy treasury notes?

Like GoldenBoy, what is your point? That DEBT is good and paying almost $500 million a day in interest is good for the American taxpayer?

What is your point?
 
Truth Detector said:
Other than your constant whiney tirades, you haven't stated anything of relevance or even remotely related to the thread topic.
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OMG that is just to funny coming from you:mrgreen:
 
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