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Thread: Cash 4 Clunkers: $24K per car by taxpayers

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    Re: Cash 4 Clunkers: $24K per car by taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe1991 View Post
    The taxpayer benefits by a stonger economy, more jobs, consumer confindence, etc, etc, etc.

    Trying to assign a static number today to an investment that may not pay off for a decade is ridiculous.
    Using this logic, it's impossible to measure the impact of anything on the economy.
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    Re: Cash 4 Clunkers: $24K per car by taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe1991 View Post

    Trying to assign a static number today to an investment that may not pay off for a decade is ridiculous.

    Any investment that takes that long to show a return, is a very bad investment.

    However, that school of thought blows Left wing opposition to oil exploration out of the water.
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    Re: Cash 4 Clunkers: $24K per car by taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Using this logic, it's impossible to measure the impact of anything on the economy.
    No, I think you can reasonably add in factors to try and guage the long term affects, but this "study" wasn't it.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Any investment that takes that long to show a return, is a very bad investment.
    lol, wut?

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    Re: Cash 4 Clunkers: $24K per car by taxpayers

    I remember seeing videos of dealers purposely burning their engines out. Because the car was worth more quickly junked than selling for cheap to someone who could eventually use it.
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    Re: Cash 4 Clunkers: $24K per car by taxpayers

    What this really did was remove a link from the used car business. This program gave money to people who could already qualify to buy a new car. It did not help people with less disposable income buy new cars, it did not help poor people with real smog belching older cars that should have been junked buy a car. What is did do was remove 690,000 relatively new vehicles that would have been good used cars from the market. The poor people who would normally have purchased these cars as an upgrade from their truly worn out, pollution belching cars now have no path to stepping into a better car for a reasonable cost.

    I will give an example. A man I know has a 1997 Toyota Tacoma that has 300,000 miles on it. The engine was worn out and it would not pass smog test in CA. He went looking for a replacement truck (he uses it for his work) but found that all of the trucks he could afford had been turned in as clunkers. Anything that was still licenseable in CA was now $6500 and higher. Looking back at ads from just 6 months ago, there were literally dozens of trucks in his price range. Now the starting price was thousands more than just months before. He ended up rebuilding the motor at a cost of $3800 because he had to have a truck in order to work.


    Junking all these cars that were traded in was a stupid idea from an economic and an environmental perspective. If you wanted to give a subsidy to the auto makers, you should have just done so. It would have been cheaper and done more good as almost half of the money went to foreign car manufacturers anyway.

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    Re: Cash 4 Clunkers: $24K per car by taxpayers

    I made this point weeks ago It's nice to see that it's finally getting some traction. The whole plan was ill conceived and piss poorly administered. Who ever thought this up in the first place is a an idiot who comes up with a plan to stimulate American car sales and allows foreign cars to be included in the program.
    Add this to the massive and growing list failures of the Obama and Dim (no spell error) plans.
    It kind fits right in with the ultimately over overwhelmingly stupid idea to raise taxes, fees, or the cost of anything when the economy is in the gutter. What does it take to get these absolute fools to understand the to stimulate growth you don't make it harder for people to buy because you are taxing hell out them to pay for dumb programs like this one, the "I don't really care about you Health Plan" or the pending "Cap and Tax you to death Plan". It would be comical if it weren't going to drag this country down to third world status. But then that seems to be Obama's ultimate goal.

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    Re: Cash 4 Clunkers: $24K per car by taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    I question the comparison 'to the historical relationship of those vehicles to total SAAR' for two reasons. One, what was happening in the industry bore no relationship to historical data, the industry was in crisis. Two, the environmental qualifications for what vehicles qualified could have (likely did?) effect what cars were purchased.
    Another question...

    Looking at historical sales data that include tradeins worth more than $4,500 should be excluded from the SAAR to keep everything on a level playing field.

    Maybe they did, maybe they didn't, it's not clear one way or the other.

    I don't think too many people would participate in a program that would only give them credit of $4,500 for an automobile worth, say, $9,000....LOL
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    Re: Cash 4 Clunkers: $24K per car by taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    Did it push sales forward, and stave off a 'falling off the cliff' scenario? Did it encourage higher mileage cars to be purchased? Did it get lower mileage cars off the road?

    Some questions I have.





    I was reading about this earlier. It's made me begin to question if extending the credit is a good idea.
    Of course it wasn't a good idea. It was nothing more than circus, without the bread.

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    Re: Cash 4 Clunkers: $24K per car by taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    I remember seeing videos of dealers purposely burning their engines out. Because the car was worth more quickly junked than selling for cheap to someone who could eventually use it.
    One requirement of the stupid program was that cars traded in be destroyed.

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    Re: Cash 4 Clunkers: $24K per car by taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It's similar for that housing thing where people were offered what like 8K or something for new home buyers. Most of those people were going to buy houses anyway. The incremental increase (i.e. renters turning owners whom wouldn't have) was rather low. All this stuff really does is make a government program which can be abused.
    The housing thing was even worse. Because you had to first buy the home to qualify, the only people who really benefited were those that could have bought a home without the credit. And the program was so easy to abuse. The IRS form required an address and a date of purchase, no other proof. So of course there was a lot of abuse - $8,000 for saying you bought a home is a deal for a lot of people. And they want to extend it, and add on a credit for those who already own a home but want to move.

    What's the point anyway. People live in homes. If I rent or if I own, I'm occupying a home. Get all the renters to buy homes and they'll buy homes, while the previous owners of rental homes sell them because they're no longer profitable.

    And they want to extend it in the bill with an unemployment extension title. I guess they at least realize people don't support the homebuyer credit so much that they can actually call it a homebuyer credit bill.

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