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Thread: Report: Amtrak loss comes to $32 per passenger

  1. #61
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    Re: Report: Amtrak loss comes to $32 per passenger

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    And of note, rail actually increases traffic. Look it up, no lie.
    I tried, but found documentation that the opposite is true - rail travel decreases traffic congestion.


    Here's one example:

    For the 1992-97 period examined, traffic congestion, as measured by the TRi, increased 55.9% in urban areas without rail transit, but only 32.4% in urban areas with rail transit in major travel corridors. in other words, traffic congestion grew at a rate 73% higher in non-rail cities, than in cities with rail in one or more major travel corridors.

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    Re: Report: Amtrak loss comes to $32 per passenger

    Quote Originally Posted by Glinda View Post
    I tried, but found documentation that the opposite is true - rail travel decreases traffic congestion.


    Here's one example:
    That's correlation, and not even good correlation at that. You didn't even prove that the difference is statistically significant.

    Look, I'm not opposed to rail, in fact I'm a big proponent of it because it is much cheaper than auto traffic. That said, I still want the truth out there. Rail increases traffic. Compare a corridor before rail and after rail. The increased pedestrian activity and increased development because of the rail cause increased traffic.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: And You Want the Government to Run Health Care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    the Government should not be in the business of providing transportation services
    Do you have any idea what you're babbling about? The government provides necessary transportation services that we'd be in a world of hurt without. Our Interstate Highway System comes immediately to mind. Imagine no high-speed freeways, no bridges or tunnels. And how would you feel about flying without air traffic controllers? Should we disband the FAA?



    The DOT consists of numerous government agencies that provide important and necessary transportation services to all citizens.

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    Re: And You Want the Government to Run Health Care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glinda View Post
    Do you have any idea what you're babbling about? The government provides necessary transportation services that we'd be in a world of hurt without. Our Interstate Highway System comes immediately to mind. Imagine no high-speed freeways, no bridges or tunnels. And how would you feel about flying without air traffic controllers? Should we disband the FAA?
    You're making the faulty assumption that we wouldn't have any of these things without government.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Report: Amtrak loss comes to $32 per passenger

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    That's correlation, and not even good correlation at that. You didn't even prove that the difference is statistically significant.
    I'll post the statistic significance one more time, for those with short attention spans and/or reading comprehension issues...

    For the 1992-97 period examined, traffic congestion, as measured by the TRi, increased 55.9% in urban areas without rail transit, but only 32.4% in urban areas with rail transit in major travel corridors. in other words, traffic congestion grew at a rate 73% higher in non-rail cities, than in cities with rail in one or more major travel corridors.
    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Rail increases traffic.
    You keep saying this, but offer no proof. *shrug*

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    Re: And You Want the Government to Run Health Care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    And yet, there isn't one tiny shred of evidence any Government run entity in history has been profitable.
    Damn facts why you always got to get in the way of TD's thinking?

    JAL, JAS Expect Group Net Profit At $188Million

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    Re: And You Want the Government to Run Health Care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glinda View Post
    Do you have any idea what you're babbling about? The government provides necessary transportation services that we'd be in a world of hurt without. Our Interstate Highway System comes immediately to mind. Imagine no high-speed freeways, no bridges or tunnels. And how would you feel about flying without air traffic controllers? Should we disband the FAA?



    The DOT consists of numerous government agencies that provide important and necessary transportation services to all citizens.
    I see that not only are you unable to follow a debate topic, but also incapable of comprehending the differences in the providing of transportation services versus the job Government has to enforce our laws and regulations to ensure the populations safety.

    Do you honestly believe that regulating air traffic or building a highway system and owning and operating a rail system are all one and the same; REALLY?

    Carry on.

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    Re: Report: Amtrak loss comes to $32 per passenger

    Quote Originally Posted by Glinda View Post
    I tried, but found documentation that the opposite is true - rail travel decreases traffic congestion.


    Here's one example:
    Is that loss equivalent to $32 per passenger?

    Let's find out. Raise the ticket prices so the passengers are paying their fair share...ie, the whole cost of the trip, and see how many still ride the choo-choo.

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    Re: Report: Amtrak loss comes to $32 per passenger

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    I think you are missing the lesson; it is not based on high speed, it is basically about being extremely selective about where you place rail and mass transit.
    Clearly, you didn't do your research. Several portions of the US rail system are more congested then the Acela line which made profit. There is clearly enough demand to sustain a train system. And as the high speed system proved, it is profitable. What isn't profitable are the low speed trains.

    You clearly did not even bother to read the posted summary. This is how I know you don't have a finance degree of anything resembling a business education.

    But again, no, or very few, Government agencies have ever actually broken even or made money on any transit system in the world. Most are subsidies by the taxpayers and the reasons for providing such systems when few want them are suspect at best.
    I see you changed your statement from your earlier absolute. I can think of several government agencies, including several companies that have been profitable. JAL has been profitable in many years and is essentially an arm of the Japanese government.

    A high speed rail system from SF to San Diego will still be extremely unprofitable; particularly when the airlines charge the same or less for HIGHER speed transit.
    Do you actually have the prices or are you just making it up as you go along which would be the usual?

    Try to LEARN your lessons before you attempt to LECTURE.
    The funny thing is, you haven't learned a single lesson, yet you try to lecture without researching anything.

    Try look up JR group in Japan. Huh. Imagine that. A government run train system that makes money.

    The thing is TD, I don't actually disagree with most of your views. You are just so abrasive it is hard to go along with you.
    Last edited by obvious Child; 10-28-09 at 05:02 PM.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: And You Want the Government to Run Health Care?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glinda View Post
    Do you have any idea what you're babbling about? The government provides necessary transportation services that we'd be in a world of hurt without. Our Interstate Highway System comes immediately to mind.
    You must be referring to the roads built for national defense purposes in the 1950's. BTW, all USERS of the roads pay for their use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glinda View Post
    Imagine no high-speed freeways, no bridges or tunnels.
    Pretending that private enterprise can't build roads?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glinda View Post
    And how would you feel about flying without air traffic controllers? Should we disband the FAA?
    Yes. The airlines have an interest in air traffic safety and not only can but SHOULD finance air traffic control. If they can't do that with fare increases, they should go out of business.

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