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Thread: Report: Amtrak loss comes to $32 per passenger

  1. #151
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    Re: Report: Amtrak loss comes to $32 per passenger

    Quote Originally Posted by Glinda View Post
    I've read Cox's essay. I'm unable to find the place where he produces his research/data/methodology/documentation that proves "rail actually increases traffic" - i.e. that the mere availability of rail travel in a given locality increases the number of vehicles on the road.

    *sigh* This is ridiculous.

    Let me know if you ever come up with an unbiased, independent study that proves "rail actually increases traffic."
    Just think of the great rail system the U.S. could have had if we hadn't blown up money in misbegotten military adventures of the last 50 years.

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    Re: Report: Amtrak loss comes to $32 per passenger

    And the thing about trains is that it brings people together, rather than isolating them in cars. It's better for community.

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    Re: And You Want the Government to Run Health Care?

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    the government is not going to "run" healthcare. where did you get that idea?
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    Re: Report: Amtrak loss comes to $32 per passenger

    Quote Originally Posted by Glinda View Post
    Let me know if you ever come up with an unbiased, independent study that proves "rail actually increases traffic."
    That's impossible. Any study that I'm going to find you'll just consider biased, whereas when you show a study by a rail advocacy group it's somehow okay. Let me know if you ever come up with a reasonable debate style.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
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  5. #155
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    Re: Report: Amtrak loss comes to $32 per passenger

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    That's impossible. Any study that I'm going to find you'll just consider biased,
    You've yet to produce an independent study. All you've offered in defense of your claim that "rail actually reduces traffic" is a critique of an existing study, offered by someone who is verifiably in the pocket of the road-building industry.

    Beyond this, if it's true that "rail actually increases traffic," there must surely be at least ONE study by an independent agency or organization (that doesn't employ Mr. Cox) that documents/proves this. Surely....

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    whereas when you show a study by a rail advocacy group it's somehow okay.
    TTI isn't a rail advocacy group.

    The Texas Transportation Institute (TTI) in College Station, Texas is the largest transportation research agency in the United States. Created in 1950, primarily in response to the needs of the Texas Highway Department (now the Texas Department of Transportation), TTI has since broadened its focus to address all modes of transportation–highway, air, water, rail and pipeline. TTI is a state agency and a member of the Texas A&M University System. TTI’s cooperative relationship with the Texas Department of Transportation has helped the Institute develop and implement work for numerous other sponsors.

    TTI researchers participate in and lead over 250 local, state and national organizations. Approximately 100 TTI researchers publish papers and give presentations at the Transportation Research Board (TRB) annual meeting, with around 40 serving on TRB committees. Since the inception of the National Cooperative Highway Research Program (NCHRP) over 40 years ago, TTI has led over 70 NCHRP projects, more than any other participant in the program. TTI researchers serve as objective transportation experts, providing an important resource to local, state and national agencies and groups.
    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Let me know if you ever come up with a reasonable debate style.
    Here's how debate works:

    Step 1
    Person A makes an assertion. ("Rail actually increases traffic.")

    Step 2

    Person B challenges that assertion. ("I can't find anything that proves that, but I did find something that refutes it.")

    Step 3
    Person A is then required to offer proof of his original assertion, or lose the debate.


    You're floundering at step 3.

  6. #156
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    Re: Report: Amtrak loss comes to $32 per passenger

    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnDrum View Post
    Just think of the great rail system the U.S. could have had if we hadn't blown up money in misbegotten military adventures of the last 50 years.
    Think of the great railsystem we could have in the US if the private sector was allowed to operate that system and succeed, or fail, based on their ability to offer an attractive service.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Report: Amtrak loss comes to $32 per passenger

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Think of the great railsystem we could have in the US if the private sector was allowed to operate that system and succeed, or fail, based on their ability to offer an attractive service.
    Yes, but the government needs to lay more rails, just like it builds roads, in order to make the system comprehensive enough to be a viable alternative to travel by automobile.

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    Re: Report: Amtrak loss comes to $32 per passenger

    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnDrum View Post
    Yes, but the government needs to lay more rails, just like it builds roads, in order to make the system comprehensive enough to be a viable alternative to travel by automobile.
    But, is there enough demand to make it worth spending the money? Are we going to lose $64 per passenger after building all those new rail lines? Will there be too large of a negative effect on the rest of the transportation industry? A negative effect on the private sector that is invested in the transportation industry?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Report: Amtrak loss comes to $32 per passenger

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Think of the great railsystem we could have in the US if the private sector was allowed to operate that system and succeed, or fail, based on their ability to offer an attractive service.
    You should read up on the history of rail transport in the US...

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    Re: Report: Amtrak loss comes to $32 per passenger

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    But, is there enough demand to make it worth spending the money? Are we going to lose $64 per passenger after building all those new rail lines? Will there be too large of a negative effect on the rest of the transportation industry? A negative effect on the private sector that is invested in the transportation industry?
    I haven't studied the issue that closely, but in my opinion rail travel is superior on so many levels, both societal and as a solution to our future energy crisis. The only way to make it work would be for government to lay the infrastructure, just as they did for the automobile in the last century.

    The rail system is practically non-existent out West where I live. It's pathetic. Rail has the potential to be powered electrically and not be dependent on liquid fuels like the auto. Making an electric train is much more feasible than an electric auto. Liquid fuels are our biggest problem we face in the future when oil reserves start falter. We need to plan for this by laying more rails.
    Last edited by MyOwnDrum; 11-01-09 at 02:23 PM.

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