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Thread: Report: Amtrak loss comes to $32 per passenger

  1. #141
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    Re: Report: Amtrak loss comes to $32 per passenger

    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnDrum View Post
    Let me just say, I visited Chicago once. It was my first experience with a tollway. It was incredible and obnoxious introduction to me to the less than enjoyable experience of driving on a privately funded and own roadway.
    Rail is more efficient when transportation is not subsidized, you were experiencing that first hand.

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    Re: Report: Amtrak loss comes to $32 per passenger

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Rail is more efficient, you were experiencing that first hand.
    Yes it is. The next day, after my son's graduation from Navy boot camp, we took the train into the city and it was a breeze.

  3. #143
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    Re: Report: Amtrak loss comes to $32 per passenger

    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnDrum View Post
    Yes it is. The next day, after my son's graduation from Navy boot camp, we took the train into the city and it was a breeze.
    That's not really a fair comparison though since the rail is subsidized, but yeah, the same thing would apply. Rail is cheaper than driving on your own.

    The thing about private roads in this country though is that the government does not let the company run it like it wants to. Look up the DC Beltway article on Wikipedia.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
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    Re: Report: Amtrak loss comes to $32 per passenger

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    That's not really a fair comparison though since the rail is subsidized, but yeah, the same thing would apply. Rail is cheaper than driving on your own.

    The thing about private roads in this country though is that the government does not let the company run it like it wants to. Look up the DC Beltway article on Wikipedia.
    How do to expect a toll road to collect money? It's inconvenient and disrupts the flow of traffic.

    If government didn't regulate the builders of the roads, they basically could hold citizens hostage, since they happen to have a monopoly on that particular road. It's not like other companies can very well build a competing road, now is it?

    No, there are certain infrastructure projects that require the pooled resources of the citizenry, gathered through taxes. Roadways, rails, subways are examples of these things that benefit everyone, one way or another.

    The government should build and maintain more rail lines that could be be used by private and public railroads. There's no more civilized way to travel, in my opinion.

  5. #145
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    Re: Report: Amtrak loss comes to $32 per passenger

    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnDrum View Post
    How do to expect a toll road to collect money? It's inconvenient and disrupts the flow of traffic.
    FasTrak.

    If government didn't regulate the builders of the roads, they basically could hold citizens hostage, since they happen to have a monopoly on that particular road. It's not like other companies can very well build a competing road, now is it?
    You don't have to take the toll portion of the DC Beltway, yet government still regulates it. Why?

    No, there are certain infrastructure projects that require the pooled resources of the citizenry, gathered through taxes. Roadways, rails, subways are examples of these things that benefit everyone, one way or another.

    The government should build and maintain more rail lines that could be be used by private and public railroads. There's no more civilized way to travel, in my opinion.
    But private companies built rail across all major American cities in the early part of last century. Why do we need government to do it now? If we toll more roads to market prices then we would see a resurgence of private rail companies.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Report: Amtrak loss comes to $32 per passenger

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Strangely enough, you didn't argue against the point he was making that it is more efficient to invest in roads if you want to decrease auto congestion.
    Most likely because "efficiency" isn't the proof you were supposed to be giving me.

    Thus far, all you've produced is biased criticism (and a few impossible "solutions") offered by a road-industry mouthpiece, regarding a study by the most trusted transportation research organization in the nation. Pointing fingers at a widely accepted study and saying it's wrong is all very nice, but it proves nothing.


    The proof you have yet to offer is that "rail actually increases traffic."


    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    It takes a lot more than an observational study to prove that rail is the reason for the decreased traffic.
    Correct. That's why TTI collects and analyzes reams of actual road use data from across the country to come up with their results. Mr. Cox clearly doesn't like the data TTI has produced, yet he doesn't seem to have produced any of his own independent data, research, or analysis, to prove his assertions.

    Wonder why that is?
    Last edited by Glinda; 10-31-09 at 01:49 PM.

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    Re: Report: Amtrak loss comes to $32 per passenger

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    FasTrak.



    You don't have to take the toll portion of the DC Beltway, yet government still regulates it. Why?



    But private companies built rail across all major American cities in the early part of last century. Why do we need government to do it now? If we toll more roads to market prices then we would see a resurgence of private rail companies.
    Yes, you mention that private companies built the rails. I live near a rail out West, they have had a monopoly on the land they were given by the government forever in order to do that, and have raped that land. The current holders of that land are some of the most obnoxious developers and abusers of the land. It was a big mistake for the government to hand those huge tracts of land over to those huge companies.

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    Re: Report: Amtrak loss comes to $32 per passenger

    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnDrum View Post
    Yes, you mention that private companies built the rails. I live near a rail out West, they have had a monopoly on the land they were given by the government forever in order to do that, and have raped that land. The current holders of that land are some of the most obnoxious developers and abusers of the land. It was a big mistake for the government to hand those huge tracts of land over to those huge companies.
    So what? It's their property and they can do what they want with it.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Report: Amtrak loss comes to $32 per passenger

    Quote Originally Posted by Glinda View Post
    Most likely because "efficiency" isn't the proof you were supposed to be giving me.

    Thus far, all you've produced is biased criticism (and a few impossible "solutions") offered by a road-industry mouthpiece, regarding a study by the most trusted transportation research organization in the nation. Pointing fingers at a widely accepted study and saying it's wrong is all very nice, but it proves nothing.


    The proof you have yet to offer is that "rail actually increases traffic."
    It was in the paper that I linked to you, you didn't respond except by saying OH NO the big bad man is biased.


    Correct. That's why TTI collects and analyzes reams of actual road use data from across the country to come up with their results. Mr. Cox clearly doesn't like the data TTI has produced, yet he doesn't seem to have produced any of his own independent data, research, or analysis, to prove his assertions.

    Wonder why that is?
    But all you've shown is an observational study, nothing that even proves strong correlation.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Report: Amtrak loss comes to $32 per passenger

    I've read Cox's essay. I'm unable to find the place where he produces his research/data/methodology/documentation that proves "rail actually increases traffic" - i.e. that the mere availability of rail travel in a given locality increases the number of vehicles on the road.

    *sigh* This is ridiculous.

    Let me know if you ever come up with an unbiased, independent study that proves "rail actually increases traffic."

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