Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 76

Thread: U.S. official resigns over Afghan war

  1. #21
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Last Seen
    10-14-11 @ 10:09 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,164

    Re: U.S. official resigns over Afghan war

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    What happened to the notion that we're there to kill al Qaeda, and that the rest is not our problem. We kicked the Taliban in the ass because they wouldn't give up bin Laden. We started with SOF and it seemed to me at the time that this approach was working.
    Well, many, like the VP, advocate a CT strategy that would primarily be focused on killing AQ. Problem is that AQ is not only in AFG...in fact, I think much of AQ has left (or are dead)...leaving the question "what are we doing there". No one asked during the Bush years because they had Iraq to complain about.

    You are right about the initial push...problem is that now we've eradicated and gotten rid of so much of AQ that "mission creep" has set in and we've focused on nation-building and fighting the Taliban (because we need someone to fight). The notion of Taliban still "guarding" AQ is kind of a dead idea and certainly isn't as true as it was in 2001.

  2. #22
    Cheese
    Aunt Spiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Sasnakra
    Last Seen
    09-10-16 @ 06:10 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,433

    Re: U.S. official resigns over Afghan war

    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
    It takes more than military success to defeat insurgents. Insurgency grows where a corrupt and weak government does not provide security, justice, and opportunity. Unless these underlying problems are resolved, the military can kill insurgents forever, and more will emerge. Insurgency is a symptom of deeper ills. The rub is that these deeper ills are not military, but political, economic, and social--things that armed forces are not prepared to fix.
    The Civilian Surge Myth | The New Republic


    We could . . . provide the resources for a serious expeditionary civilian corps. But a few hundred or even a couple of thousand people is not enough. We would need many thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, of advisers with linguistic skills and cultural knowledge willing to leave home and live under risky conditions for years at a time . . . Of course, if the pay is high enough, the experts will come. But, at a time of massive government budget deficits and a persisting national economic crisis, this is simply not in the cards.
    If we are unwilling to pay the price for a serious civilian capability--and admit that foisting the job of development and political assistance on the military is a bad idea--the only option is to alter our basic strategy. We could find a way to thwart Al Qaeda and other terrorists without trying to re-engineer weak states. We could, in other words, get out of the counterinsurgency and stabilization business
    Yep - he's not doing any of that, either.
    He's continuing to do ... nothing.
    I could do that - I could be president and I'll take option "C" for continuing to do nothing about it.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

  3. #23
    pirate lover
    liblady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    St Thomas, VI
    Last Seen
    03-14-16 @ 03:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    16,165
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: U.S. official resigns over Afghan war

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Why was it the just war when Bush was in office, and it's not now that Obama is in office?
    i didn't say it wasn't just, but it's gone beyond the point of usefulness. i don't see any end to it.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  4. #24
    pirate lover
    liblady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    St Thomas, VI
    Last Seen
    03-14-16 @ 03:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    16,165
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: U.S. official resigns over Afghan war

    Quote Originally Posted by kansaswhig View Post
    The belief that Afghanistan was the "just war" was hyped greatly by Iraq and the debacle there for so many years prior to The Surge and subsequent success. Obama hitched his train to Afghanistan during the campaign and now if he doesn't follow through, it will hurt him politically. No one denies that AFG was the right thing after 9/11, but I think the question has become "what are we doing there and why", as highlighted by the resignation of Hoh, an obviously non-partisan guy.

    Many in Obama's camp, to include the VP now believe that a full on COIN strategy is not the right answer in AFG; plus many of the anti-war crowd in his base aren't going to support a troop increase. Although they were oddly silent during the campaign when Obama was touting AFG as "the good war".
    well, it WAS the only war that made a lick of sense. it just doesn't now.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  5. #25
    User Dr.Gonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    West Texas
    Last Seen
    11-13-09 @ 11:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    58

    Re: U.S. official resigns over Afghan war

    Not to change the subject, but I want to know Obama's motivation in all of this.

    Is he trying to show the doubters that he isn't afraid of war?

    Is he taking one last shot at capturing bin Laden to prove his superiority over the Bush admin.?

    Or is he taking orders from the right, despite his promises to end the wars?

    I think it's a pointless endeavor at this stage, and think we need a defined objective and a time line to achieve it.

  6. #26
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 03:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,272

    Re: U.S. official resigns over Afghan war

    Quote Originally Posted by kansaswhig View Post
    Well, many, like the VP, advocate a CT strategy that would primarily be focused on killing AQ. Problem is that AQ is not only in AFG...in fact, I think much of AQ has left (or are dead)...leaving the question "what are we doing there". No one asked during the Bush years because they had Iraq to complain about.

    You are right about the initial push...problem is that now we've eradicated and gotten rid of so much of AQ that "mission creep" has set in and we've focused on nation-building and fighting the Taliban (because we need someone to fight). The notion of Taliban still "guarding" AQ is kind of a dead idea and certainly isn't as true as it was in 2001.

    Well, if you take Dear Leader at his word when he says that he "isn't comfortable with the term victory" as it relates to AFG, or Jon "Heinz" Kerry this past weekend when he said, "it's not about good governance, but really about good enough governance".... At that point I knew, to start yelling PULL THEM NOW!


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  7. #27
    pirate lover
    liblady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    St Thomas, VI
    Last Seen
    03-14-16 @ 03:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    16,165
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: U.S. official resigns over Afghan war

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    It still is a just cause. To liberals though, no war is worth actually winning.


    j-mac
    what's the cause?

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  8. #28
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 03:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,272

    Re: U.S. official resigns over Afghan war

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    what's the cause?

    At the time we went in was to go after AQ, and unseat the Taliban from power.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  9. #29
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Last Seen
    10-14-11 @ 10:09 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,164

    Re: U.S. official resigns over Afghan war

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Gonzo View Post
    Is he trying to show the doubters that he isn't afraid of war?
    Well, if he is, he has yet to convince them.

    Is he taking one last shot at capturing bin Laden to prove his superiority over the Bush admin.?
    IF OBL is alive, I don't think we'll get him...I think that goal is pretty arbitrary at this point.

    Or is he taking orders from the right, despite his promises to end the wars?
    No. He didn't promise to end AFG. Did you listen to anything he said during the campaign? While Obama chided Iraq, he was adamant that AFG was "the good war" and said that it was a war we MUST win. Doesn't sound like a promise to end wars.

    I think it's a pointless endeavor at this stage, and think we need a defined objective and a time line to achieve it.
    Defined OBJ will come soon. Hopefully it's well thought out. Just know that it is all political at this point.

    Time lines are worthless in a COIN war.

  10. #30
    pirate lover
    liblady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    St Thomas, VI
    Last Seen
    03-14-16 @ 03:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    16,165
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: U.S. official resigns over Afghan war

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I don't know what he's continuing because he's not doing crap squat at the moment.

    Maybe it would be safe to imply: continuing to leave our troops high and dry without intervention or progression.

    Maybe he's faithfully continuing the quagmire.

    Or perhaps he's continuing with his ideology that "we need to take troops out of Iraq and put them into Afghanistan" ... and, look, here we are, so now he needs to figure out "what comes next" ... only, as Obamanites accused Bush of doing, he's not trying to come up with a timeline and decide exactly that.

    He just needs to do something instead of sitting on his indecisive proverbial ass - This is not a war of contrition.
    what would you have him do RIGHT NOW? it seems to me the troops in afghanistan have been left high and dry for years.

    i think it's a damned good idea to take the time to consider all the consequences, that certainly WAS NOT done before this administration. it's my hope we get out, but i used to feel different. now, i don't think there's much of a point in staying.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •