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Thread: U.S. troops hope Afghanistan sacrifices not in vain

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    Re: U.S. troops hope Afghanistan sacrifices not in vain

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    i liked the source of the WH on the sign Mission Accomplished on the ship. of course the WH never lies about something to cover that inept bastard Bush's ass when he makes a complete fool of himself internationally. that is the best joke i have heard in years. Bush was and is a liar. he lead your troops to war for anything but the right reason. how is it possible for anyone to defend that clown. i will never understand that. not if i live to be 10000. the defense of a complete idiot. maybe you just feel sorry for him.







    Its when i see posts like this, i just shake
    my head at the lunacy of somes seething partisan hatred.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: U.S. troops hope Afghanistan sacrifices not in vain

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    No, I am saying the only reason the government we helped set up is still standing is because of our heavily armed occupation force.

    If that were not the case, why would they still be needed there?
    Ok, so your statement:
    We overthrew their government and helped select those they would vote on
    is WRONG.

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    Re: U.S. troops hope Afghanistan sacrifices not in vain

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    i liked the source of the WH on the sign Mission Accomplished on the ship. of course the WH never lies about something to cover that inept bastard Bush's ass when he makes a complete fool of himself internationally. that is the best joke i have heard in years. Bush was and is a liar. he lead your troops to war for anything but the right reason. how is it possible for anyone to defend that clown. i will never understand that. not if i live to be 10000. the defense of a complete idiot. maybe you just feel sorry for him.
    If you lived to be 10,000 then you'll know the hidden agendas and be able to see what good resulted from his decisions and our actions and I'm sure you'll change your mind.
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    Re: U.S. troops hope Afghanistan sacrifices not in vain

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Its when i see posts like this, i just shake
    my head at the lunacy of somes seething partisan hatred.
    Which countries don't teach the use of capital letters?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: U.S. troops hope Afghanistan sacrifices not in vain

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Do they distinguish between civilians killed by terrorists/insurgents and civilians killed by American/Coalition forces?
    Did we?
    Yes. Perhaps you just don't realize the effort made to prevent civilian casualties. In stark contrast was the terrorists intentional targeting of civilians. You need to ackowledge that.

    So you do not believe the civil war will resume, when we are not there to prevent it?
    It is definitely one possible outcome. We must do what we can to avoid this, especially since "we broke it, we fix it". This means pulling out some of the troops, to allow them to establish their own security, but not all of our troops. I will now invoke Germany and Japan and Korea as cases where we helped establish democracies and we still have significant troops there today. We need to do the same with Iraq.

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib
    It is encouraging that mass violence on a broad scale has not broken out now that we have disengaged from their cities.
    We still have 150,000 heavily armed troops there, and paying off the bad actors, what are they going to do?
    I don't understand. Do you mean what are the terrorists/insurgents going to do or do you mean what are our disengaged 128,000 troops going to do?

    Saddam kept al Qaeda and Iran at bay through murder, torture and rape???
    al Qaeda: Saddam was working with al Qaeda.
    Iran: Did you miss the part about the 1980-1988 Iran-Iraq war?

    You mean my unrealistic stance that I cannot morally condone the trading of human lives to drive a hummer to the store and back?
    I told you it is about spreading democracy, not getting oil. Now that we are there, we need to be successful.

    To do what the Iraqi people are demanding, that we leave!
    They are not demanding that. They are demanding that some of our forces leave, and leave the cities, but not all of them.

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    Re: U.S. troops hope Afghanistan sacrifices not in vain

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Ok, so your statement:
    is WRONG.
    Selected was the incorrect term. I should have said supported. After all, Malaki would never have been able to return to Iraq had we not toppled the government there. And we supported him when we put together the Iraqi Interim Government.

    "Returning home after Saddam's fall, he became the deputy leader of the Supreme National Debaathification Commission of the Iraqi Interim Government, formed to purge former Baath Party officials from the military and government."
    Nouri al-Maliki - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: U.S. troops hope Afghanistan sacrifices not in vain

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Selected was the incorrect term. I should have said supported. After all, Malaki would never have been able to return to Iraq had we not toppled the government there. And we supported him when we put together the Iraqi Interim Government.

    "Returning home after Saddam's fall, he became the deputy leader of the Supreme National Debaathification Commission of the Iraqi Interim Government, formed to purge former Baath Party officials from the military and government."
    Nouri al-Maliki - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Fair enough. Nothing bad about that - he is a capable guy. We searched for capability in the interim government. He won the Prime Ministership all on his own.

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    Re: U.S. troops hope Afghanistan sacrifices not in vain

    [quote=reefedjib;1058336251]

    al Qaeda: Saddam was working with al Qaeda.
    This has been shown to be nonsense. He would work with ALQ as much as Cleopatra would work with an asp.

    I told you it is about spreading democracy, not getting oil. Now that we are there, we need to be successful.
    It's not about democracy, it's about a stable govt with a standing army that can do our bidding. We'd be happy with what will happen anyway: a return of the usual ME dictatorship that won't go off the reservation.

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    Re: U.S. troops hope Afghanistan sacrifices not in vain

    Quote Originally Posted by tjinta ibis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib
    al Qaeda: Saddam was working with al Qaeda.
    This has been shown to be nonsense. He would work with ALQ as much as Cleopatra would work with an asp.
    Not true. There was collaboration and meetings. One held in Hungary I think. Nothing to do with 9-11, though.

    Saddam had relationships with several terrorist groups. Remember Ansar al-Islam?

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    Re: U.S. troops hope Afghanistan sacrifices not in vain

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Yes. Perhaps you just don't realize the effort made to prevent civilian casualties. In stark contrast was the terrorists intentional targeting of civilians. You need to ackowledge that.

    You mean excepting when we strike water treatment plants and electricity plants that result in the deaths of a hundred thousand innocent civilians?

    It is definitely one possible outcome. We must do what we can to avoid this, especially since "we broke it, we fix it". This means pulling out some of the troops, to allow them to establish their own security, but not all of our troops. I will now invoke Germany and Japan and Korea as cases where we helped establish democracies and we still have significant troops there today. We need to do the same with Iraq.

    Apples and oranges. The difference being that Germany and Japan were attacking other countries. Iraq was not, in fact did not the capacity to be a threat after Gulf War 1 and 10 years of sanctions. Iraq was already defeated.

    I don't understand. Do you mean what are the terrorists/insurgents going to do or do you mean what are our disengaged 128,000 troops going to do?

    Sorry, it appears I did not complete my sentence. What I was trying to say is that the pro-west government we helped set up there will not stand against its own people once our heavily armed occupation force is withdrawn.



    al Qaeda: Saddam was working with al Qaeda.
    Iran: Did you miss the part about the 1980-1988 Iran-Iraq war?

    Saddam and al-Qaeda did not get along. There were almost none in Iraq before we ousted Saddam according to the Pentagon report. They determined there was no Iraqi-al Qaeda connection.


    I told you it is about spreading democracy, not getting oil. Now that we are there, we need to be successful.

    Than you have changed your opinion, because earlier you were indicating that it was partly about the oil. We need to be successful in what? It is up to the Iraqis to determine their fate and how they handle their own oil resources.


    They are not demanding that. They are demanding that some of our forces leave, and leave the cities, but not all of them.
    You are representing what the pro-west government we helped helped set up is saying.

    I am speaking of the Iraqi people that will topple the pro-west government when we remove our heavily armed occupation forces.

    "Paul Jay speaks to Mike Tharp, Executive Editor of the Merced Sun-Star who's currently based at the McClatchy Newspapers' Baghdad Bureau. Tharp says that most Iraqis "want the "US out totally as soon as possible." They've seen the last six years as an occupation, not as bringing freedom and democracy to Iraq, but instead the loss of tens of thousands of Iraqi lives as well as over 4300 American troop losses, a Trillion dollars spent by the US. I don't know what estimates are being put on the damage done to the Iraqi society and economy, but it's incalculable."

    The Real News Network - Most Iraqis want US troops out now
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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