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Thread: U.S. troops hope Afghanistan sacrifices not in vain

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    Re: U.S. troops hope Afghanistan sacrifices not in vain

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    i know the region and i was in Iraq prior to the invasion. Saddam was a tyrant and a petty thug. i have stated that he needed to be out of power.

    i am still against the US invasion of the nation with other coalition forces. the US has changed leaders many times in other nations and it has always gone badly. the killing of 10o's of thousands of people does not make sense to me. killing to end killing is an odd step forward.death is death. which is more wrong.
    are you less dead if a Coalition troop kills you?
    are you more dead if Saddam kills you?

    the coalition had no reason to be in the country and therefore the people were raped of their power to change their nation as they saw fit.

    just say this. if the entire world hated George Bush so much that the thought that he should be removed. and every nation in the world stopped trade with the US. then all on the same day the armies of the entire world tossed everything they had at the US to get rid of Bush. (i know you are going to say the US would have kicked ass) but say this had happened and the Swede's marched into the White House and executed Bush. you would be pretty upset.

    what right did the US and others have to do it to someone else?
    We have an important image to keep up Katie..We are the saviours and the policeman of the world..only the US has the right to invade other nations under the diguise of promoting democracy.

    The world for the most part after WW11 used to respect the US for valid reasons, now it is not that way anymore....to many bridges burned.

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    Re: U.S. troops hope Afghanistan sacrifices not in vain

    Katie, I totally agree with you. The only reason soldiers wouldn't want their picture taken is if they are doing something wrong. I understand that not all reporters are honest (look at people like Limbaugh) but we need the media so we know what is happening. Frankly, I wish we were more like Canada in that regard and kept our nose out everyone's business.
    It's time for a revolution in our country. Not a revolution forged with guns and bombs but a revolution forged of compassion and altruism. A revolution that extends a hand to those who don't have and who cannot. A revolution that makes Health Care available to all those in the US.

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    Re: U.S. troops hope Afghanistan sacrifices not in vain

    Great response, thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    the US has changed leaders many times in other nations and it has always gone badly.
    We have a bad track record this half-century, for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    the killing of 10o's of thousands of people does not make sense to me. killing to end killing is an odd step forward.death is death. which is more wrong.
    are you less dead if a Coalition troop kills you?
    are you more dead if Saddam kills you?
    I think there is a difference between people directly killed by the actions of our soldiers and people killed by the terrorists.

    I am cognizant of the fact that those killed by the terrorists would not have been killed if we didn't invade, but we are not directly responsible for their deaths.

    I also think that the majority of people that our soldiers killed were bad guys and not innocent people, although I am sure a lot of innocent life was taken by bombing, mistaken identity, poor judgement, and counterinsurgency.

    Iraq had a power structure in place that extended past the Army and included the police and intelligence services and local government. This power structure was abusive and murderous to its people. It takes blood to remove the structure and form a new one. Is it worth it? I think so.

    It was worth it when we threw off the English power structure, both in 1775 and in 1812. It took blood to save lives.

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    the coalition had no reason to be in the country and therefore the people were raped of their power to change their nation as they saw fit.
    There were good reasons to be in country. I think that there were multiple reasons given to go. I think there was one primary objective. I think there were multiple secondary objectives that hinged on the primary objective.

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    just say this. if the entire world hated George Bush so much that the thought that he should be removed. and every nation in the world stopped trade with the US. then all on the same day the armies of the entire world tossed everything they had at the US to get rid of Bush. (i know you are going to say the US would have kicked ass) but say this had happened and the Swede's marched into the White House and executed Bush. you would be pretty upset.
    Was Bush killing his people and threatening his neighbors and not in a Democracy but the leader for life with no way to change him? Bring it on!

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    what right did the US and others have to do it to someone else?
    Reasons:
    - WMD development threat
    - Treatment of citizens
    - Iraqi cooperation with terrorists
    - UN violations
    - To transform into a democracy, because it is geopolitically important and it has the capacity for a democracy high literacy, developed economy, etc

    and the primary objective was:
    - To transform into a democracy

    Secondary objectives (long-term):
    - Influence Iran as a neighboring democracy
    - Influence Saudi Arabia as a neighboring democracy
    - Become a regional leader

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    Re: U.S. troops hope Afghanistan sacrifices not in vain

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Great response, thanks!



    We have a bad track record this half-century, for sure.



    I think there is a difference between people directly killed by the actions of our soldiers and people killed by the terrorists.

    I am cognizant of the fact that those killed by the terrorists would not have been killed if we didn't invade, but we are not directly responsible for their deaths.

    I also think that the majority of people that our soldiers killed were bad guys and not innocent people, although I am sure a lot of innocent life was taken by bombing, mistaken identity, poor judgement, and counterinsurgency.

    Iraq had a power structure in place that extended past the Army and included the police and intelligence services and local government. This power structure was abusive and murderous to its people. It takes blood to remove the structure and form a new one. Is it worth it? I think so.

    It was worth it when we threw off the English power structure, both in 1775 and in 1812. It took blood to save lives.



    There were good reasons to be in country. I think that there were multiple reasons given to go. I think there was one primary objective. I think there were multiple secondary objectives that hinged on the primary objective.



    Was Bush killing his people and threatening his neighbors and not in a Democracy but the leader for life with no way to change him? Bring it on!



    Reasons:
    - WMD development threat
    - Treatment of citizens
    - Iraqi cooperation with terrorists
    - UN violations
    - To transform into a democracy, because it is geopolitically important and it has the capacity for a democracy – high literacy, developed economy, etc

    and the primary objective was:
    - To transform into a democracy

    Secondary objectives (long-term):
    - Influence Iran as a neighboring democracy
    - Influence Saudi Arabia as a neighboring democracy
    - Become a regional leader
    But no connetion to the 9-11 attacks...those threats and people were left behind in Afghanistan and the Pakistan border region.

    I think we will be very fortunate as a nation that not all presidents have the same standards as far a honor and dignity goes and have a totally different definition as to what honesty is and what a Accomplished Mission really is.
    Last edited by goldendog; 10-29-09 at 02:50 PM.

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    Re: U.S. troops hope Afghanistan sacrifices not in vain

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Didnt the army notify the Red cross about Abu Gahrib and thats how the press got wind of it?
    No, newsweek broke the story when they found out Rumsfeld was sitting on it.

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    Re: U.S. troops hope Afghanistan sacrifices not in vain

    Quote Originally Posted by goldendog View Post
    But no connetion to the 9-11 attacks...those threats and people were left behind in Afghanistan and the Pakistan border region.
    9-11 highlighted the importance of stopping nuclear proliferation. That is the only connection.

    As far as Afghanistan goes, there is a limit to how many people our logistics system can support. There was also a limit of effective missions. I think we were at that point.

    Al Qaeda was in Pakistan and we couldn't very well invade those mountain highlands could we? We had limited missions.

    Quote Originally Posted by goldendog View Post
    I think we will be very fortunate as a nation that not all presidents have the same standards as far a honor and dignity goes and have a totally different definition as to what honesty is and what a Accomplished Mission really is.
    I think the Bush Doctrine will be used again. Not be every president. We aren't going to start invading countries willy-nilly. The country in question has to have a bad track record (17 UN resolution violations...), has to be of geopolitical importance to its region, has to be in our national interest, and has to have the capacity for democratization.

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    Re: U.S. troops hope Afghanistan sacrifices not in vain

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    maybe he just doesn't have the taste for blood like some i know.




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    Re: U.S. troops hope Afghanistan sacrifices not in vain

    Quote Originally Posted by kansaswhig View Post
    No, newsweek broke the story when they found out Rumsfeld was sitting on it.



    Newsweek?


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    Re: U.S. troops hope Afghanistan sacrifices not in vain

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Obama is incapable of making quick decisions and certainly not capable of making tough decisions that could cost him politically. Everything this Administration will be stifled by the "political" assessments first and foremost.

    It is typical with Democrat leadership and something once again so painfully and obviously on display.

    Remember the Kerry rant; "I was for the war before I was against it." It pretty much sums up the dimwitted mentality of Democrat politicians.
    it really has little to do with either Democrats or Republicans. the world does not work that way. underneath the rhetoric they are pretty much the same.

    Obama is trying to hold to many things in the air at one time. trying to fix all that has gone wrong at one time makes a mess of the soup.

    Bush by not focusing on the capture of Bin Laden missed that and has you in two conflicts in areas on the globe that have been in conflict since the world took form.

    you are stuck and outside of just biting the bullet and pulling out you will be stuck in both places for years. Iraq is and always will be one day away from going right back to where they were. Afghanistan is where Empire goes to die.

    i blame your Bush for getting into these things. i blame Obama who said he was against these conflicts from the3 beginning for not ending them. the US needs if they follow the original goal to create a police action to capture Bin Laden. they need to help Iraq rebuild their nation. the world needs to help Afghanistan to rebuild theirs.

    the fighting by the coalition needs to stop and stop now. that is the only plan that makes sense. if the Iraqi insurgence finds work and pay they will stop attacks. if they are paid to lay brick and plaster walls and hang doors and are left to their faith and life they will stop.

    the reason for the hatred of the west is that the west wants them to be like they are. these people have a totally different culture. they always have. why is it important to the west to have these folks be like you are?
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
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    Re: U.S. troops hope Afghanistan sacrifices not in vain

    Quote Originally Posted by goldendog View Post
    We have an important image to keep up Katie..We are the saviours and the policeman of the world..only the US has the right to invade other nations under the diguise of promoting democracy.
    Reading the above, it is apparent that it contains nothing more than hyperbolic nonsense.


    Quote Originally Posted by goldendog View Post
    The world for the most part after WW11 used to respect the US for valid reasons, now it is not that way anymore....to many bridges burned.
    Once again, the above contains nothing factual; just more of the same uniformed opinions that appear to be your forte'.

    I would ask you for some credible facts to support your absurd opinions, but that would be like asking an elephant to fly; it just isn't going to happen.

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